day 5 candling

[Kleonaptra]

Why are you afraid to candle them? Is it that you're thinking you'll be let down if they're fertile then don't survive to hatching? I can understand it if so, but we candle once per week to dispose of anything that didn't survive. You don't want to leave an egg without a viable embryo in the nest to get broken. If you've never smelled that, you don't want to start now

Are you incubating or is one of your hens sitting on them?

Yes Im afraid to be let down. Im incubating them. I have 10 large eggs from the pekin or pekin cross girls and 3 small call eggs.

For the first 3 years I had a pacific black drake (Wist, pictured in my avatar) and 2 pacific black females. Never even one egg.

Then I lost Talli and got my pekin and 2 part pekins. Everybody laid eggs, everybody sat. The little pacific black female had her nest destroyed by one of the females and I didnt rescue the eggs in time. All other eggs died at about 3 weeks dispite promising heartbeats at 2 weeks. I thought maybe it was bad mothering as it was all the girls first years and they werent sitting well.

Next year I lost my little pacific black female and got the incubator. When the pekin eggs all died at 3 weeks I had to assume that 2 were mules. Ive heard pekin crosses often are.

So last year I got my calls, because calls are suppose to cross well with pacific black. Now Ive still got wist plus two call drakes - and a female that thinks its a drake - as well as 3 big girls, a muscovy and a call female.

I know the incubator works fine because I hatched some squabs in there. I suppose Im scared to get my hopes up, but Im also scared that the problem was my little Wist all along. If everyones eggs hatch this year then it was my drake that was the problem, and its HIS babies I want the most! He was the first bird I ever hatched by incubation and I didnt know much then, he was lucky to hatch at all and he's always been a bit slow...Never see him breeding anyone especially now with the other drakes very active about it.

They've been in 7 days today, I know Ive got to candle sooner or later.

 

[JadeComputerGal]

Yes Im afraid to be let down. Im incubating them. I have 10 large eggs from the pekin or pekin cross girls and 3 small call eggs.

For the first 3 years I had a pacific black drake (Wist, pictured in my avatar) and 2 pacific black females. Never even one egg.

Then I lost Talli and got my pekin and 2 part pekins. Everybody laid eggs, everybody sat. The little pacific black female had her nest destroyed by one of the females and I didnt rescue the eggs in time. All other eggs died at about 3 weeks dispite promising heartbeats at 2 weeks. I thought maybe it was bad mothering as it was all the girls first years and they werent sitting well.

Next year I lost my little pacific black female and got the incubator. When the pekin eggs all died at 3 weeks I had to assume that 2 were mules. Ive heard pekin crosses often are.

So last year I got my calls, because calls are suppose to cross well with pacific black. Now Ive still got wist plus two call drakes - and a female that thinks its a drake - as well as 3 big girls, a muscovy and a call female.

I know the incubator works fine because I hatched some squabs in there. I suppose Im scared to get my hopes up, but Im also scared that the problem was my little Wist all along. If everyones eggs hatch this year then it was my drake that was the problem, and its HIS babies I want the most! He was the first bird I ever hatched by incubation and I didnt know much then, he was lucky to hatch at all and he's always been a bit slow...Never see him breeding anyone especially now with the other drakes very active about it.

They've been in 7 days today, I know Ive got to candle sooner or later.

I've read this three times and hope I have everything straight. Just a few comments I hope will help, but I'm also hoping others will chime in. I know a good bit about ducks, but there are others here who know far more than I do.

As far as your Pekins potentially being mules, this isn't possible unless everything I've ever thought I knew about mule ducks is wrong. All Muscovy/Mallard descendent ducks are sterile since they're different species even though they're all ducks. Mule hens don't even lay eggs. Hinny hens (the opposite cross) can lay eggs, but they are never fertile. This means yours can't even be hinnies because they wouldn't have been alive for that three weeks you mentioned.

I do completely understand the not wanting to be let down part, but you have to remember that, if they're not alive now, they're not going to be alive later, either. It's better to know and to go ahead and dispose of any infertile eggs or eggs with dead embryos. I don't incubate, but that's true of whether you incubate or do natural hatching. Eggs without living embryos will start to decay and build up bacteria. That's a mess to clean out of a nest, and probably not easy with an incubator, either. If you're the least bit uncertain after candling, just put them back in and wait another few days or a week.

You didn't mention how you do your candling. Can you let us know what method you use?

Best of luck!

 

[Kleonaptra]

I've read this three times and hope I have everything straight. Just a few comments I hope will help, but I'm also hoping others will chime in. I know a good bit about ducks, but there are others here who know far more than I do.

As far as your Pekins potentially being mules, this isn't possible unless everything I've ever thought I knew about mule ducks is wrong. All Muscovy/Mallard descendent ducks are sterile since they're different species even though they're all ducks. Mule hens don't even lay eggs. Hinny hens (the opposite cross) can lay eggs, but they are never fertile. This means yours can't even be hinnies because they wouldn't have been alive for that three weeks you mentioned.

I do completely understand the not wanting to be let down part, but you have to remember that, if they're not alive now, they're not going to be alive later, either. It's better to know and to go ahead and dispose of any infertile eggs or eggs with dead embryos. I don't incubate, but that's true of whether you incubate or do natural hatching. Eggs without living embryos will start to decay and build up bacteria. That's a mess to clean out of a nest, and probably not easy with an incubator, either. If you're the least bit uncertain after candling, just put them back in and wait another few days or a week.

You didn't mention how you do your candling. Can you let us know what method you use?

Best of luck!

Thanks for chiming in. I did post multiple times about mule females and my drake, my question being, would the eggs get fertilized at all if they were mules or infertile with each other? I didnt think an embryo would begin to grow at all in that case. No one knew enough to really get into the nitty gritty of it.

That first year it was Syanne the pekin, Ephinny and Varia who are part pekin (and I dont know what the other part is) and Wist and Piper both pacific blacks. I never saw Wist mate anyone, but I know for certain he is male, (seen his penis) BUT I see those 3 big girls mating each other all the time. Each take turns on top. Only Ephinny never sits on eggs. When I started checking the eggs a good 50% were fertile, but I had no garuntee it was actually WIST doing it! Syanne kept a horrid nest. Let everyone lay in it and try to sit on 50. Stay on them in blistering heat, abandon them in cool weather. Varia was much better but hers still died. I was devastated over Pipers nest, I didnt even know she had one until I found her eggs kicked around. At that point I was cracking at least 2 eggs a day and I always saw a fertilized spot, sometimes even a split nucleas.

The next year with the incubator I was sure all was well. I never saw the really clear viens you want to see, nor the red hue (it was more orangey) but a dark cloudy ness that increased and at about 2 weeks was pulsing like a heartbeat. Continues to grow promisingly to about 3 weeks then bam, dead halt, rotten eggs. Literally a couple of days from the moment I think Ive got a live duckling I get a cracked stinking rotten egg.

I use a bright torch and a cardboard toilet roll. I hold the roll firmly against the torch and in a dark room hold the egg on the end of the toilet roll. I gently turn it a little to get the light through the air sac.

The 2 successful incubations I did WITHOUT an incubator. I got Wist because my mate did land clearing and found the eggs under an earth mover and 'thought my ducks might just sit on them'. I rigged up a box and a heat lamp and didnt touch them for 2 weeks and Wist up and hatched himself, no turning, no humidity. Piper was a similar story of rescued eggs, I rigged up a homemade incubator and misted and turned and candled all the time! I had 5 eggs and 3 looked like they were developing well. Only one 'jumped' when I candled, and I believe that was Piper.

Ok, so, if everyone has babies this year, what is wrong with Wist? Even now, with the 2 call drakes mating everything that moves he occasionally gets excited and pulls his girlfriends tail...But thats it.I have another thing going on with the call drake that cant be a drake, but thats another story.

You make a fine point. I'll try and find time to candle tomorrow.

 

[JadeComputerGal]

I'm not sure what kind of torch you mean, but I'm wondering if that is part of the problem if it isn't one of the ones that doesn't generate heat. I have a nifty little device that works extremely well for me and isn't at all expensive. You can find it here-->http://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00ION2XYG/ref=wms_ohs_product?ie=UTF8&psc=1 on the US Amazon site, which is where I got mine. The AU Amazon site doesn't list it, but the UK site does. You might want to look into one of those to see if it can be shipped to AU. It generates no heat, and you barely have to handle the eggs to use it.

 

[Kleonaptra]

Im sure none of my torches ever generated heat. We have had an extreme boom on 'green' lighting, (my partner is in the industry) and you have to work extremely hard to find something that DOES generate heat these days! Im hanging on to my last heat bulb in hopes of making a brooder.

I candled last night, Im worried maybe my torch isnt bright enough. Its different to the one I used a few years ago on Pipers clutch and when I candled those eggs the viens were very clear.

Ok, I tossed 3 that were clear. I left 3 in that had a clear dark spot with faint lines around that might be viens. The spot moved a little, I didnt feel that was a good sign. The rest I left in but I think are no good, they all had a big dark shadow down the side of the egg. Because I couldnt immediately tell with those ones I just left them to check in a few days.

 

[JadeComputerGal]

Im sure none of my torches ever generated heat. We have had an extreme boom on 'green' lighting, (my partner is in the industry) and you have to work extremely hard to find something that DOES generate heat these days! Im hanging on to my last heat bulb in hopes of making a brooder.

I candled last night, Im worried maybe my torch isnt bright enough. Its different to the one I used a few years ago on Pipers clutch and when I candled those eggs the viens were very clear.

Ok, I tossed 3 that were clear. I left 3 in that had a clear dark spot with faint lines around that might be viens. The spot moved a little, I didnt feel that was a good sign. The rest I left in but I think are no good, they all had a big dark shadow down the side of the egg. Because I couldnt immediately tell with those ones I just left them to check in a few days.

I'll be crossing my fingers that you end up with at least a few viable embryos. I'm a little concerned about the way you describe it since you should be on day 9-10 now. At that point, you should be able to see some distinct veining and a little air cell. Like you said, it's possible your light isn't bright enough to clearly see what's going on inside. Did you take a look at the link I sent to the candling device? That device really does work very well, and they also have a higher-end model that will work in any lighting conditions because it's enclosed. It's not much more expensive as far as I remember. We just didn't need one that could be used in a lit room because we take our eggs out of the nest and to our media room, which is completely dark if the drapes are closed and the lights are off, to do our candling.

Keep us posted! I'm eager to hear how things turn out for you.

 

[Kleonaptra]

Yes I looked its very expensive. I can get it shipped here it all works out about $70. I find that awfully steep considering a bright torch and a toilet roll do the trick! Keep in mind Im a horse breeder first and my season is revving up here, stallion, broodmare, weanling, supplements fencing....I would love to breed some ducklings but I cant throw my full forces behind it...Not to mention I also have a 3yr old, a newborn, and a cat rescue operation!

For the first few years I really thought they would do it themselves. I bought the incubator because I was sick of the pekins sitting in the heat and abandoning the eggs in cool weather! I have a muscovy now that is too old to breed herself but she likes to sit, loves to brood. Im letting eggs build up in the shed nest right now because she might just take over.

I'll check the incubator in a few days, but Im really on the look out for my call duck Leelu's eggs. I talked about it in another thread, its her eggs I really want and I only have 2 in the bator. My feeling is I'll end up chucking this lot and setting about 6 of hers when I find them. I knew when I set these I was being terribly optimistic, spring has only just started so they havnt even really started mating yet.

 

[JadeComputerGal]

Yes I looked its very expensive. I can get it shipped here it all works out about $70. I find that awfully steep considering a bright torch and a toilet roll do the trick! Keep in mind Im a horse breeder first and my season is revving up here, stallion, broodmare, weanling, supplements fencing....I would love to breed some ducklings but I cant throw my full forces behind it...Not to mention I also have a 3yr old, a newborn, and a cat rescue operation!

For the first few years I really thought they would do it themselves. I bought the incubator because I was sick of the pekins sitting in the heat and abandoning the eggs in cool weather! I have a muscovy now that is too old to breed herself but she likes to sit, loves to brood. Im letting eggs build up in the shed nest right now because she might just take over.

I'll check the incubator in a few days, but Im really on the look out for my call duck Leelu's eggs. I talked about it in another thread, its her eggs I really want and I only have 2 in the bator. My feeling is I'll end up chucking this lot and setting about 6 of hers when I find them. I knew when I set these I was being terribly optimistic, spring has only just started so they havnt even really started mating yet.

Wow, that's almost twice what I paid for mine. It certainly sounds like you have your hands full. I wish you the best, and I hope you'll let us know how things turn out with the eggs

 

[Kleonaptra]

Wow, that's almost twice what I paid for mine. It certainly sounds like you have your hands full. I wish you the best, and I hope you'll let us know how things turn out with the eggs

Ok its day 12 now I DEFINITELY have some viening! I just did an impromptu candle because my partner wanted the extension cord and I thought if I dont see anything I'll just chuck them and start again. I couldnt see much because of the light but something is MOVING in one of Leelu's eggs! In about 3 others Ive got faint viens.

I will candle again when it gets dark to get a better look and let you know. BTW, I cant find the rest of Leelu's eggs, I just checked all her nesting spots, lots of feathers, no eggs. She is really getting good at throwing me off the scent!

 

[JadeComputerGal]

I'm so excited for you! I love Call ducks. What color is she? I don't see that anywhere in this thread. Maybe she keeps moving her nesting spots because you keep "stealing" her eggs?