The worst infestation of mites we ever had around here was DESPITE using DE. It was in their litter, in their dust baths, and in their nests, and we still got them. This is what my own experience has taught me - not experts or studies (which are a dime a dozen) that can be selectively chosen to bolster any side of a discussion.
1) I was going out there and putting the DE down wearing a bandanna over my face to protect my lungs, as per the directions on the bag. WHAT?? Wait! If I'm not supposed to breathe it in, what is it doing to my chickens? They're living in it, fluffing it all over the place when they dust bathe, when they settle into the nests, and when they scratch in the litter. It puffs up in little clouds when they give their feathers a good shake. They can't help but breathe it in. They ain't wearing little bandannas or face masks when they're out there.
2) I use true deep litter, not deep bedding. There is a profound difference in the two. True deep litter composts in place, ready for me to just take out a shovelful and add it to plants when I put them in the ground or by the wheelbarrow full to spread on the garden with no second step composting needed. DE could be killing the little critters that help break down that deep litter. OOPS...
3) DE is sharp. The edges of that stuff are what works against creepy critters. So why would I want to feed my chickens, my pets, or myself something that would be like eating microscopic bits of broken glass? I'll pass, thanks. In chickens it's only in it's natural state until it reaches the gizzard. What happens then? Everything in there is ground down to continue the digestive process. So where are those sharp edges now?
4) DE is ineffective when wet. A digestive system is anything BUT dry. So how I was supposed to think that it's going to work against internal parasites escapes me. Those egg cysts in feces are impervious to almost anything once they are passed. That's why they can remain viable on the ground for years and years. Ingesting a little DE, putting it through a wet digestive system, isn't going to do anything.
5) People say, "I've used it for years and my flock (or my dogs or my __________(fill in the blank) have never had parasites. So it works." Well, I have two crossed sticks in the yard because studies show that that will keep sharks away. I've never had a shark in my yard, so it works. That, of course, is a sarcastic statement, but it's the same theory. The plain truth is not every flock would have had internal or external parasites anyway, without DE. And most birds can handle a small worm load..they are designed that way.
6) Complacency. I see it over and over again on this forum and others. "My chickens have worms...(or mites or lice or whatever). How can this happen? I put DE in the coop and in their food." Well, it happened, sir or madam, because you expected a miracle in a bag to handle all of that for you and didn't practice due diligence. Nothing in a bag or bottle is going to beat regular bird examinations and coop observation, catching issues early, and treating appropriately. Chicken keeping is work. It's supposed to be - it's what we signed on to do. Sometimes it's messy and unpleasant and even sad, but it's all part and parcel.
7) Internal parasites can be tricky to treat anyway without knowing what kind they are and what specific product is effective against them, let alone trying to throw one shotgun blast of a controversial product at them. "But if use this-or-that, I'll have an egg withdrawl period." Um, so what? I'd rather lose a couple of weeks' worth of eggs than a chicken. I bought eggs before I got chickens, and to protect them and get them back into the peak of health I'm willing to go without or buy eggs again. And I just don't believe in treating a flock prophylacticaly. I'd rather let them be until (or if) I see a problem. At that point I'll take a little sample of poop in and let the vet do a fecal. It costs me a few bucks, but I don't need to find an avian vet to do it - worms are worms, regardless of the source, so the same fecal test they do on dogs will be fine for chickens. Then, when I learn exactly what I'm up against, I'll get the proper product and take action. Again, and this is important enough to repeat: Not all bird will have a worm infestation. A lot depends on the ground they free-range or where the coop and run are set up. If that area had a lot of activity from other animals, then you need to be watchful because, as earlier stated, those egg cysts can remain viable for years after the previous critters disappeared.
8) Mites are opportunistic. Just because you've dumped DE on the floor, in the nests and in the dust bath doesn't mean that mites can't get in and set up house. Many of them feed mostly at night, coming out of cracks and crevices that DE, even at it's dustiest, simply cannot reach. That's what happened to my flock. Although every place that the chickens used regularly was dusted with it or had it spread, the mites still marched in. I have a lot of trees and bushes around my coop. which means a lot of wild birds. Even though with my setup small birds can't get in, they did build nests and roost in those trees and bushes. And they foraged on the same ground my chickens did. From there it was simple process for the mites to migrate into the coop, finding cracks and crevices in which to hide and reproduce. As so many others have done, I assumed that my flock was protected. I was wrong, and the ensuing 2 month battle proved it.
8) I willingly concede that DE is somewhat effective against mites that it comes into direct contact with. I raise my chicks outdoors in a wire brooder pen within the run, and my adults can move around the brooder on 3 sides. For those two reasons, I check my chicks regularly and would have absolutely NO problem dusting them with DE to help eradicate the little boogers...the mites, that is, not the chicks
. I would prefer to use that on them rather than the insecticidal poultry dust for adults, just because of their age, even though as far as I am concerned the results might be mediocre at best. But that would be the only time I would use it. Fortunately out of 8 batches of chicks over the last years, that has not had to be done. Imagine that - mite free chicks and chickens with no DE!
I don't have any fancy studies to back up my assertions. In my 68 years on this earth I've learned that studies, experts, publications, research papers - all of that - can be skewed to bolster a position. That's especially true now with search engines like Google. Folks Google a question and get a list of links. Then they go through the links and select that ones that most affirm their positions. They copy that link, then start spreading it around until it almost becomes gospel. What I have posted here is NOT based on any scientific evidence, and I'm the first to say it. It's based on what's printed on the back of the bags and my own personal experience.
We all have our own ways to do things, and it's natural to think our way is the best way. However, that's not true. If there was only one "right" way to raise chickens this entire website could be read in half an hour. As I often say, you are there, I am not. You know your climate, your setup, your flock, and your own personal comfort zone far better than I do, and for me to try to dictate to you what you should or should not do would be presumptuous. (By the way, in this post "you" is generic, not person specific.) So if you are a DE user and like it, by all means continue. If you don't like it, then don't. If you are on the fence, think about what the previous post said about it and what I've said about it and then decide. There is no "wrong" here - just individual conviction and choice. All I'm doing with this post is presenting the other side of the coin in, I hope, a civil manner.
1) I was going out there and putting the DE down wearing a bandanna over my face to protect my lungs, as per the directions on the bag. WHAT?? Wait! If I'm not supposed to breathe it in, what is it doing to my chickens? They're living in it, fluffing it all over the place when they dust bathe, when they settle into the nests, and when they scratch in the litter. It puffs up in little clouds when they give their feathers a good shake. They can't help but breathe it in. They ain't wearing little bandannas or face masks when they're out there.
2) I use true deep litter, not deep bedding. There is a profound difference in the two. True deep litter composts in place, ready for me to just take out a shovelful and add it to plants when I put them in the ground or by the wheelbarrow full to spread on the garden with no second step composting needed. DE could be killing the little critters that help break down that deep litter. OOPS...
3) DE is sharp. The edges of that stuff are what works against creepy critters. So why would I want to feed my chickens, my pets, or myself something that would be like eating microscopic bits of broken glass? I'll pass, thanks. In chickens it's only in it's natural state until it reaches the gizzard. What happens then? Everything in there is ground down to continue the digestive process. So where are those sharp edges now?
4) DE is ineffective when wet. A digestive system is anything BUT dry. So how I was supposed to think that it's going to work against internal parasites escapes me. Those egg cysts in feces are impervious to almost anything once they are passed. That's why they can remain viable on the ground for years and years. Ingesting a little DE, putting it through a wet digestive system, isn't going to do anything.
5) People say, "I've used it for years and my flock (or my dogs or my __________(fill in the blank) have never had parasites. So it works." Well, I have two crossed sticks in the yard because studies show that that will keep sharks away. I've never had a shark in my yard, so it works. That, of course, is a sarcastic statement, but it's the same theory. The plain truth is not every flock would have had internal or external parasites anyway, without DE. And most birds can handle a small worm load..they are designed that way.
6) Complacency. I see it over and over again on this forum and others. "My chickens have worms...(or mites or lice or whatever). How can this happen? I put DE in the coop and in their food." Well, it happened, sir or madam, because you expected a miracle in a bag to handle all of that for you and didn't practice due diligence. Nothing in a bag or bottle is going to beat regular bird examinations and coop observation, catching issues early, and treating appropriately. Chicken keeping is work. It's supposed to be - it's what we signed on to do. Sometimes it's messy and unpleasant and even sad, but it's all part and parcel.
7) Internal parasites can be tricky to treat anyway without knowing what kind they are and what specific product is effective against them, let alone trying to throw one shotgun blast of a controversial product at them. "But if use this-or-that, I'll have an egg withdrawl period." Um, so what? I'd rather lose a couple of weeks' worth of eggs than a chicken. I bought eggs before I got chickens, and to protect them and get them back into the peak of health I'm willing to go without or buy eggs again. And I just don't believe in treating a flock prophylacticaly. I'd rather let them be until (or if) I see a problem. At that point I'll take a little sample of poop in and let the vet do a fecal. It costs me a few bucks, but I don't need to find an avian vet to do it - worms are worms, regardless of the source, so the same fecal test they do on dogs will be fine for chickens. Then, when I learn exactly what I'm up against, I'll get the proper product and take action. Again, and this is important enough to repeat: Not all bird will have a worm infestation. A lot depends on the ground they free-range or where the coop and run are set up. If that area had a lot of activity from other animals, then you need to be watchful because, as earlier stated, those egg cysts can remain viable for years after the previous critters disappeared.
8) Mites are opportunistic. Just because you've dumped DE on the floor, in the nests and in the dust bath doesn't mean that mites can't get in and set up house. Many of them feed mostly at night, coming out of cracks and crevices that DE, even at it's dustiest, simply cannot reach. That's what happened to my flock. Although every place that the chickens used regularly was dusted with it or had it spread, the mites still marched in. I have a lot of trees and bushes around my coop. which means a lot of wild birds. Even though with my setup small birds can't get in, they did build nests and roost in those trees and bushes. And they foraged on the same ground my chickens did. From there it was simple process for the mites to migrate into the coop, finding cracks and crevices in which to hide and reproduce. As so many others have done, I assumed that my flock was protected. I was wrong, and the ensuing 2 month battle proved it.
8) I willingly concede that DE is somewhat effective against mites that it comes into direct contact with. I raise my chicks outdoors in a wire brooder pen within the run, and my adults can move around the brooder on 3 sides. For those two reasons, I check my chicks regularly and would have absolutely NO problem dusting them with DE to help eradicate the little boogers...the mites, that is, not the chicks
. I would prefer to use that on them rather than the insecticidal poultry dust for adults, just because of their age, even though as far as I am concerned the results might be mediocre at best. But that would be the only time I would use it. Fortunately out of 8 batches of chicks over the last years, that has not had to be done. Imagine that - mite free chicks and chickens with no DE!I don't have any fancy studies to back up my assertions. In my 68 years on this earth I've learned that studies, experts, publications, research papers - all of that - can be skewed to bolster a position. That's especially true now with search engines like Google. Folks Google a question and get a list of links. Then they go through the links and select that ones that most affirm their positions. They copy that link, then start spreading it around until it almost becomes gospel. What I have posted here is NOT based on any scientific evidence, and I'm the first to say it. It's based on what's printed on the back of the bags and my own personal experience.
We all have our own ways to do things, and it's natural to think our way is the best way. However, that's not true. If there was only one "right" way to raise chickens this entire website could be read in half an hour. As I often say, you are there, I am not. You know your climate, your setup, your flock, and your own personal comfort zone far better than I do, and for me to try to dictate to you what you should or should not do would be presumptuous. (By the way, in this post "you" is generic, not person specific.) So if you are a DE user and like it, by all means continue. If you don't like it, then don't. If you are on the fence, think about what the previous post said about it and what I've said about it and then decide. There is no "wrong" here - just individual conviction and choice. All I'm doing with this post is presenting the other side of the coin in, I hope, a civil manner.
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"chemical free" is all good IF it works.
