Dead Birch Tree (Widow Maker) Falling Down - Need Suggestions

[gtaus]

You can be assured the pith of that trunk where you need to place a felling cut is going to be all punky and soft. There will be no holding wood to rely on for much directional felling.

Yep, I can see that the tree is all punky and soft just by looking at the base of the trunk. That has been my concern because I suspect there would be no holding wood to directional felling. That rotted wood could separate at any time - in any direction.

How good are you with a chainsaw? Serious question.

I have been cutting down trees for over 50 years, but mostly only on my property. I'm not a professional logger by any means. But I currently have 3 acres of wooded property and have managed the trees here for over 35 years. I have a number of chainsaws from 6-inch pruning saws to an 18-inch bar on my biggest saw. I have all the safety equipment and felling wedges, axes, etc... I know how to make face cuts and usually get my trees to fall within a foot or so of where I expect.

But I have never tried cutting down a hollow, rotted tree before and I know that is reason to be cautious.

If you are capable of accurately notching the face cut and have the base cut come out horizontal and your corners meet without overcutting ON THE FIRST TRY, get a bullrope, a line capable of sustaining a heavy pull and get it well up in the upper top third of the trunk, the higher the better and have your pulling source at least 3 times the distance as the tree is high. DON'T SKIMP ON THIS REQUIREMENT. Slowly and careful not to pull it over, put it under tension (Several people, come-along, truck) and make your face cut pointed at your crew in the direction of center of mass. Don't face cut deeper than a third the diameter in this case. Make your back cut perfectly horizontal to the face cut, about 2" higher than the base of your face cut. Slowly come in staying exactly perpendicular to the direction of pull and your base cut all while it's under tension. It will release well before you'd expect probably. Drop your saw and go!

That's some good information. Thanks. I think I might try pulling it down with a tow rope(s) first because I think the rotted wood would break off easily. If not, I will follow your suggestion.

Drop the saw and go! Been there done that more than once. I'm just at an age where my "go" is not as fast as it used to be. That's why I did not want to mess around with the tree when it was still standing 35-40 feet tall. Even at 15 feet remaining, I am cautious.

If ANY of this sounds like it might be a bit tough, call a tree guy. For me, that would be a 10 minute job to have it on the ground safely.

Well, it might take me longer than 10 minutes, but I think I will end up getting it on the ground safely. Lots of respect to you professional arborists and loggers. It's a dangerous occupation even for experienced men.

Most importantly, have a GOOD cameraman video the entire process. The money you make on the Youtube video could possibly pay for any hospital costs!

I would hate to end up on YouTube that way! But I have watched a number of tree felling gone wrong videos. I don't want to be just another guy putting himself in danger.

I have gotten a lot of good suggestions from you guys on taking the remaining tree down - safely. I appreciate all the feedback. I have cut many taller, bigger trees before, but none of them were hollow or rotted. I just want to be extra careful and consider all my options before I put myself under that rotted tree that needs to come down.

Be Safe!

Agreed. Thanks.

 

[matheny00]

I would toss or burn all the wood. If termites are in it you want to kill them not give them a chance for new real-estate like your run or coop.

 

[gtaus]

I would toss or burn all the wood. If termites are in it you want to kill them not give them a chance for new real-estate like your run or coop.

Right. I thought the chickens might like to eat the ants and termites they find in the wood. I was only considering dumping the wood in the run, not the coop. It might not be an issue in the end because I am reading that ants and termites don't continue to live in a rotted-out tree after a certain period of time.

Having said that, right now I leaning to just using the wood to burn out the stump once I get the rest of the tree down.

Thanks for the response.

 

[Sally PB]

Remember, every knot you put in a line depletes its strength at least 50%.

I'd never heard this before. Can you explain why this is?

 

[gtaus]

I'd never heard [tying knots in a rope reduces the strength by 50%] before. Can you explain why this is?

I have always heard that knots in a rope reduce the strength. As a sport fisherman, I learned how to tie hooks and lures with using knots for that reason. But here is a pretty good explanation...

*********
This statement is a practical warning rooted in rope physics and safety engineering:

“Every knot you put in a line depletes its strength at least 50%” means that tying a knot in a rope significantly reduces its ability to bear load or resist breaking.

---

Why Knots Weaken Rope Strength​

Stress Concentration​

• Knots create sharp bends and tight curves in the rope.
• These bends cause uneven tension across the rope fibers—some fibers bear more load than others.
• This localized stress makes the rope more vulnerable to failure under strain.

Reduced Load Distribution​

• A straight rope distributes force evenly along its length.
• A knotted rope shifts that force to a smaller cross-section, reducing its effective strength.

Friction and Internal Abrasion​

• Inside the knot, fibers rub against each other under tension.
• This friction can damage the rope internally, especially during repeated loading cycles.

---

How Much Strength Is Lost?​

Different knots reduce rope strength by different amounts:

Knot Type	Approx. Strength Retained	Strength Loss
Bowline	70–75%	25–30%
Clove Hitch	60–65%	35–40%
Double Fisherman	50–55%	45–50%

So the “50%” figure is a conservative rule of thumb—some knots are gentler, others more aggressive. But it’s a safe assumption when planning for load-bearing applications like climbing, rigging, or rescue.

---

If you're working with rope in a critical context—whether it's arborist gear, marine rigging, or DIY pulley systems—it’s smart to factor in this strength loss and choose knots that balance security with minimal degradation.

*******************

 

[cavemanrich]

gtaus​

Just a little info;
I am a Rock climber, so very well aware of knots, and ultimate break strength.
I did not suggest you get a 3/8 inch clothes line to do the job.
The 4 inch Nylon strap has a WWL, of 5400 pounds. (working load limit).
That translates too at least 3 times to reach its break strength. (15,000)
I drove a Semi truck Flatbed for 38 years before retirement. I am very knowledgeable about load Securement.
So that 4 inch strap, regardless what type of knot you tied to secure to your vehicle, would still have at least minimum of 7500 pounds strength.
I don't think a 15 foot rotted tree trunk would be stubborn enough to break that 7500 pounds still left at worst scenario.
I would not have made a suggestion, unless I really thought it was a safe one.
Below is a random picture I just grabbed showing the type of loads I hauled safely. That steel coil weighs about 40,000 pounds. Note there are 5 chains securing it to trailer.
I used Nylon straps on different type of material hauled, like lumber.

 

[Sally PB]

@gtaus and @cavemanrich, very interesting information! Thank you both.

It really makes sense that tying a knot in a rope would weaken it, but I'd never even thought about it before. Thanks again.

 

[gtaus]

I did not suggest you get a 3/8 inch clothes line to do the job.
The 4 inch Nylon strap has a WWL, of 5400 pounds. (working load limit).

I appreciated all the comments I received. In my case, I have tow straps rated for 3,300 lbs. which I intended to use to pull down that dead tree.

So that 4 inch strap, regardless what type of knot you tied to secure to your vehicle, would still have at least minimum of 7500 pounds strength.

Agreed. However, I do my best never to put a knot in a rope or tow strap.

I don't think a 15 foot rotted tree trunk would be stubborn enough to break that 7500 pounds still left at worst scenario.

Exactly. The tree is all dead and rotted out. I looked it up and discovered that the tree may have lost 70-80% of its healthy weight. CoPilot said that I am looking at maybe 200 lbs. of force to pull down that dead, rotted out, hollow, tree. My tow straps, rated at 3,300 lbs., should have no problem with that. Even a 3/8 inch nylon rope has about 700-800 lbs. working load limit. More than enough to tackle this dead tree. However, I'm using my tow straps.

I am a Rock climber, so very well aware of knots, and ultimate break strength.

I grew up in the Great Plains of Red River Valley in Minnesota. We don't even have hills were I live. Rock climbing was never something I even thought about. I can only imagine how much you must have learned about knots and break strength of ropes where your life literally depends on your gear. Thanks for your responses.

I was hoping that some experienced loggers and others would help me out with this dead tree felling situation. I am confident now in my ability to safely pull down the dead tree with some tow straps. Once that idea was suggested, the rest of the project fell into place rather quickly.

Here is a Google picture of what my current plan is to pull down the tree...

Since I am working alone, I'll use my vehicle's tow hitch to do the pulling for me. But I have a tree saver strap I can use and will probably buy a D-Ring to make the redirect smoother. In any case, I will be far away from the remaining 15-foot-tall dead tree no matter which way it falls.

It's still raining here today and throughout the weekend, but I plan on pulling down the tree maybe next week if it dries up enough. I just don't want to drive my vehicle across a wet, soft, lawn and do any more damage to the lawn than I have to.

Thanks to everyone for their inputs. I think I have a safe, solid plan going forward.

 

[Sally PB]

Good luck!

And thanks for the information about knots in ropes.

The things I learn on a chicken forum.

 

[gtaus]

I want to thank everyone for their comments and just let you know what I ended up doing. It was a bit from a number of suggestions, which worked for me, and the tree is now down on the ground, and I was able to walk away with ending up on YouTube! I have few pictures to share along with final comments on some of your suggestions. Again, thanks for all the responses.

This is how I would handle this. Not sure you have what it takes.
I have strong ropes, and Nylon straps.

I have a number of 2-inch tow ropes rated at 3,300 lbs each. I had not considered pulling the tree down before reading your suggestion. Thanks.

Here was my initial tow strap setup. I had the strap wrapped around the trunk up about 10 feet high. Two straps, each 20-feet-long, giving me 40 feet from the tree. More than a safe distance for me to pull on the tree. I had planned on hooking it up to my vehicle, but when I tugged on the rope, I was able to move the trunk by armstrong. I knew at that time I would not even need to hook it up to my vehicle.

When hubby has to bring down a leaner, or something that MUST fall a certain way, he does this. If the tree is big enough or needs more pull, he attaches it to the Jeep and uses that to pull it over. If he can't get the Jeep in the right place, he runs the pulling rope around another tree to redirect the force.

I was all prepared to use an anchor tree and use some kind of redirection if needed. But when I pulled on the tow straps, the tree moved, so I knew it would not take much to take it down.

Its called directional felling, it all starts with the notch you put in the tree on which way you want it to go. Then you may need to use wedges to help it go that direction. But you are right dead/ rotted trees are unpredictable on what they might do. Be careful.

Although the tree moved when I pulled on it, it was still too strong for me to pull it down by myself. I cut a notch in the direction of where I wanted the trunk to fall...

Then I did a back cut part of the way, but not nearly as far in as I would normally with a healthy tree. The wood was so rotted, that there was practically no resistance to the chain and I did not want to overcut and risk the dumb tree falling down on me...

You can be assured the pith of that trunk where you need to place a felling cut is going to be all punky and soft. There will be no holding wood to rely on for much directional felling.

Exactly, but pulling the tow straps fell the tree exactly where I wanted it. All it took was one or two tugs from me and the tree came down. Here is a look at the "hinge" on the stump...

Nothing pretty about that hinge. It was all rotted and punky. If I had not pulled it down, I'm not sure how the hinge would have broken and where the tree would have finally fell down.

Here are some pictures showing how far I was from the tree - 40 feet away. And then a close up of the top of the trunk to give you an idea of how rotted the tree was even 15-20 feet high...

Don't face cut deeper than a third the diameter in this case. Make your back cut perfectly horizontal to the face cut, about 2" higher than the base of your face cut.

Yep, I made a shallow face cut and the back cut only went in part of the way. I did not want to take take this tree down with the chainsaw.

I would toss or burn all the wood. If termites are in it you want to kill them not give them a chance for new real-estate like your run or coop.

I decided to burn all that rotted wood. I moved a burn ring to the site and have started soaking the stump with oil/diesel mixture. I keep adding oil/diesel for a few days and let it soak in good.

Here is a picture of the whole tree on the ground. I cut everything up into about 12 inch rounds. The wood was really rotted out and each round weighs almost nothing...

So that 4 inch strap, regardless what type of knot you tied to secure to your vehicle, would still have at least minimum of 7500 pounds strength.

My tow straps have loops on both ends. So, I never had to put any knots in the straps. Honestly, the tree was so rotted out that I could probably have pulled it down with a 3/8-inch nylon rope. The tow straps are just much safer.

Again, thanks for all the responses and I just wanted to tell you all how it ended well.