Delaware genetics for dummies?

[sdeneen2001]

So, is it okay if I got them just because I think they look purty?

 

[math ace]

Quote:
It is just fine to get them if you thought they just look "purty".

I have many birds running around my yard that I got from a hatchery and got them because they were "purty"!

I also have three pens that I have set up for breeding of "show" quality chickens. . . .

 

[math ace]

Quote:
Might be me tonight, but for some reason this doesn't look right. In one sentence you appear to say they should not be present in Delawares and in the next you say they are present in one of the breeds that is in the original foundation of the Delaware.

I thought this too, but figured I was being a dum dum and let it go

Thanks for speaking up AND maybe we could get some clarification on this statement.
Since Delawares are an original cross or NH and BR, then according to above why wouldn't we expect an extended black in the Delawares ?

 

[kstaven]

Once I can get rid of the screaming migraine it just may make sense to me.

 

[catdaddyfro]

Quote:
Might be me tonight, but for some reason this doesn't look right. In one sentence you appear to say they should not be present in Delawares and in the next you say they are present in one of the breeds that is in the original foundation of the Delaware.

I thought this too, but figured I was being a dum dum and let it go

Thanks for speaking up AND maybe we could get some clarification on this statement.
Since Delawares are an original cross or NH and BR, then according to above why wouldn't we expect an extended black in the Delawares ?

This is a quote from seriousbill on the thread titled {Delaware hen tail feathers black vs. barred, how to get?}

https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=235538 post #6


search seriousbill username and read some of her posts theres alot of good information on Delawares in her posts she's serious about it,ha.

I said BRs weren't columbian *restricted* and they're not, because of extended black, as you know, so the effect is not the same. Delawares are, and this causes the barring to not show up as much in the tails of the females. This is not my opinion but simple fact. Look at any Delaware female that comes to hand and it's pretty obvious. Yes, barring does show a dose effect and that IS a factor in what we're talking about, because the females only have one barring gene, while the males have two. The dose effect often means that Del males have more barring in tails than Del females, but the gradient effect in this breed is also at work. It minimizes the barring and the color generally in the female Delaware's tail, which is probably THE biggest pitfall when trying to work with this breed.

Delawares are based on eb; IMO most show birds are eb. Some are based on ewh. eb produces better black coloring in this breed.

No, I'm not talking about heterozygosity and homozygosity. A well barred rooster is one that is homozygous for very clear cut barring, as one would see in a SQ BR. He will throw that barring to his daughters, and they will sometimes have some barring in the tail, to a greater or lesser degree. MOST Delaware females, however, do not have this. Instead, they have a greater or lesser degree of black in the tail, and barring in the hackle (gradient). That's the breed, and it has nothing to do with being heterozygous. The breed has been this way since it arrived on the scene in the 1940's, and as I said, the standard is written to take this into account. Otherwise, as you pointed out, the female standard would be written to include tail barring.

You asked me "why?" That's why.

 

[bt2000]

So in a nutshell.

What we're seeing with the green legs is infact an indicator of cross breeding?

 

[catdaddyfro]

Quote:
Yes exactly heres a post that math ace sent me in a PM I posted last year this is what the hatcheries do for us to meet the demands of orders for Delaware looking birds we order from them.

Yes I'm stirring up a hornets nest I know but I will post some pics of my newest recruits from Ideal hatchery here shortly if my photobucket acct. will cooperate. I just had to purchase some to see if they were doing anything different than normal and nope they are still just breeding for plumage pattern (and not very good at that so far either) and not anything else apparantly.

From mathace

LAST year you made this post on one of the delaware threads . . .

What I'm getting at is don't think that it is too far for some people to go(hatchery/and not all of them do but some would, have and do) to cross Delawares with Columbian rocks, Lt, Sussex,ect...) and RIR, NH, Pro. red,( which produce Delaware looking birds with red leakage which give them a brassy-yellow or rusty-orange sheen in the neck and back area) as to produce enough chicks to fill demands for orders.
This is where the problem with these flaws to crop out in so called Delawares.

Would you be willing to continue this discussion with me?
I even have some pics I would like you to look at . . .

Let me know if you are willing to do some pm or emailing with me over this topic.

Thanks,

Lisa - math ace

 

[bt2000]

Quote:
Yes exactly heres a post that math ace sent me in a PM I posted last year this is what the hatcheries do for us to meet the demands of orders for Delaware looking birds we order from them.

Yes I'm stirring up a hornets nest I know but I will post some pics of my newest recruits from Ideal hatchery here shortly if my photobucket acct. will cooperate. I just had to purchase some to see if they were doing anything different than normal and nope they are still just breeding for plumage pattern (and not very good at that so far either) and not anything else apparantly.

By all means, Stir away.. I'll even bring a spoon..

 

[kathyinmo]

 

[kstaven]

Yes I'm stirring up a hornets nest I know but I will post some pics of my newest recruits from Ideal hatchery here shortly if my photobucket acct. will cooperate. I just had to purchase some to see if they were doing anything different than normal and nope they are still just breeding for plumage pattern (and not very good at that so far either) and not anything else apparantly.

Did you get the pics yet?​