Delawares from kathyinmo

[finnfur]

While we all twiddle our thumbs and wait to see wassup with our wings, I thought I'd introduce one more thing to worry about: Combs!

File this one under Things Change.

Here is a closeup of the comb on my original cockerel (now cock) the day I picked him up, which was October 21, 2013 when he was about 6 months old.






And here is the same bird's comb on December 11, 2013 ... not even two full months later (this was the day I got my first egg from one of his pullets).




I double checked these photos today cuz I was feeling kinda meh about the combs on the 9 oldest cockerels I just moved to the bachelor pad. Now I have hope.

Yes the combs seem to develop with maturity -
Blu. Loki, Waffles and Freya send "Get wells" to Gust

 

[finnfur]

WINGS - JUST some THOUGHTS
Been looking and even though and on some the black primaries show below the coverts the primaries are still parallel with the ground and not drooping . Maybe some have short coverts . However there are still some twisted and split feather which is a separate issue .
Going to take another look. Guess we need to look at a good wing to see the difference.

 

[LeslieDJoyce]

As promised, yesterday I did catch each of the 9 cockerels I had moved into the bachelor pad, put them in Dad's lap, pulled out their wings one at a time with one hand, and pushed buttons on my iPhone with the other hand. Then I put them in this holding cage.



That's all but the biggest bird, who was the last one we handled so we just put him right back in the coop.

I tried to take a photo of his width from above, but he was super annoyed with me at that point and wouldn't be still.



He looks relatively rectangular from the front of his shoulder to the start of his tail, so I think that means he'll have a balanced width. He is tall. He needs to fill out some more to have the right shape. And of course his color is a mess ...


The wing photos are pretty useless.

This is one of the wings from that same cockerel. It is maybe more developed than some of the others in that I can find the secondary feathers, but you can see there are still some feathers coming in, some that look like they need to molt out, and some of the odd gaps, and the twists in the last few feathers (first few?) we've been talking about.




Handling them reminded me to dust them for mites. Le sigh.

In terms of the project goals, it wasn't a total waste of time, though, as I believe I now understand why Walt tells us to WAIT until a bird has ALL it's wing feathers before we decide if it has wing issues. I couldn't even find secondary feathers on some of the younger birds, and wings do look especially weird that way, even if you're not holding them correctly and are not fully informed about what they're supposed to look like. I'm going to give it a few more weeks at least before I panic.

And the pullets? We're not allowed to laugh at this photo. Here is the Delaware Cock with some of his daughter pullets. He is molting and only has one tail feather left. Hanging on to the last shred of his dignity like a true leader (by mooching for food at the trough).



Here are a couple younger cockerels trying to blend in with the pullets so they can stay in the comfy coop. Someone needs to tell them hanging out together makes them conspicuous.





Meanwhile, Gust has decided going out in the middle of the night is fun and he'll be bringing his frisbee. I think he's all better.

 

[Ms Jellybean]

As promised, yesterday I did catch each of the 9 cockerels I had moved into the bachelor pad, put them in Dad's lap, pulled out their wings one at a time with one hand, and pushed buttons on my iPhone with the other hand. Then I put them in this holding cage.



That's all but the biggest bird, who was the last one we handled so we just put him right back in the coop.

I tried to take a photo of his width from above, but he was super annoyed with me at that point and wouldn't be still.



He looks relatively rectangular from the front of his shoulder to the start of his tail, so I think that means he'll have a balanced width. He is tall. He needs to fill out some more to have the right shape. And of course his color is a mess ...


The wing photos are pretty useless.

This is one of the wings from that same cockerel. It is maybe more developed than some of the others in that I can find the secondary feathers, but you can see there are still some feathers coming in, some that look like they need to molt out, and some of the odd gaps, and the twists in the last few feathers (first few?) we've been talking about.




Handling them reminded me to dust them for mites. Le sigh.

In terms of the project goals, it wasn't a total waste of time, though, as I believe I now understand why Walt tells us to WAIT until a bird has ALL it's wing feathers before we decide if it has wing issues. I couldn't even find secondary feathers on some of the younger birds, and wings do look especially weird that way, even if you're not holding them correctly and are not fully informed about what they're supposed to look like. I'm going to give it a few more weeks at least before I panic.

And the pullets? We're not allowed to laugh at this photo. Here is the Delaware Cock with some of his daughter pullets. He is molting and only has one tail feather left. Hanging on to the last shred of his dignity like a true leader (by mooching for food at the trough).



Here are a couple younger cockerels trying to blend in with the pullets so they can stay in the comfy coop. Someone needs to tell them hanging out together makes them conspicuous.





Meanwhile, Gust has decided going out in the middle of the night is fun and he'll be bringing his frisbee. I think he's all better.

Such beautiful birds! I know you are all trying to get to SOP, and may not be happy with certain things right now (I think that is what I am reading), but I must say, to my untrained eye they look pretty darn good. Can't wait to get some for my flock.

 

[Zanna]

Here are some pictures of some of my cockeral F'5's from this years breedings. I have two distinct types, as their Fathers that I used. One type has longer/thinnner feathers on their neck and saddles. When their heads are down the feathers hang down towards the ground. These guys also have a flatter, more elongated head. Last year on this thread I posted a picture of the Dad of these birds, Kathy liked him and said he looked just like his Dad. Not sure I am liking these birds as well as the others. The others have a smoother/tighter look, wider/shorter neck saddle feathers and at this point much less smut/spotting on the chest. They have a rounder, fatter looking head. Open to any discussions/opinions you all have

A younger cockeral, older cockeral and front chest pic. of type #1






Type #2 and a pic. of the two types side by side:

 

[finnfur]

Here are some pictures of some of my cockeral F'5's from this years breedings. I have two distinct types, as their Fathers that I used. One type has longer/thinnner feathers on their neck and saddles. When their heads are down the feathers hang down towards the ground. These guys also have a flatter, more elongated head. Last year on this thread I posted a picture of the Dad of these birds, Kathy liked him and said he looked just like his Dad. Not sure I am liking these birds as well as the others. The others have a smoother/tighter look, wider/shorter neck saddle feathers and at this point much less smut/spotting on the chest. They have a rounder, fatter looking head. Open to any discussions/opinions you all have

A younger cockeral, older cockeral and front chest pic. of type #1






Type #2 and a pic. of the two types side by side:

I don't think the shape is bad on any but type two might be a tick better - But I like the longer flowing hackles on type 1 - And if Type 1 picture 1 has a right wing like the left please ship it to me in VA -Most all of my Cockerels look more like your type 2- going to switch Cocks next spring and see if we can help with the wing .
It might be the pictures but I don't see a major difference in the heads - picture sometimes don't show things in 2D the eyes see in 3D.
Your progressing well - keep up the good work .

 

[LeslieDJoyce]

Here are some pictures of some of my cockeral F'5's from this years breedings. I have two distinct types, as their Fathers that I used. One type has longer/thinnner feathers on their neck and saddles. When their heads are down the feathers hang down towards the ground. These guys also have a flatter, more elongated head. Last year on this thread I posted a picture of the Dad of these birds, Kathy liked him and said he looked just like his Dad. Not sure I am liking these birds as well as the others. The others have a smoother/tighter look, wider/shorter neck saddle feathers and at this point much less smut/spotting on the chest. They have a rounder, fatter looking head. Open to any discussions/opinions you all have

Yay! Pictures!

I think they're looking great! Good size, nicely colored legs. They sure look healthy. And you have choices! I envy you even though I do understand choosing can be a challenge. How many Delaware cockerels do you have to choose from?

I also love the wing carriage in Type 1. I love the photo of the huge bulbous chest, he looks like he's going to pop. So far my females have more of that look than my males, so I'm waiting and hoping.

Type 2's feathers do look more "organized," which is one thing I'm hoping for this year (tighter feathering to help protect the females during breeding time), but their bodies also look a little more lumpy at this stage. Isn't it nice to see some white on at least some of the feathers? I think mine look lighter every day. And I agree about liking the rounder heads ... I'm not sure about the SOP for that as long as there is some width, but they do look a little friendlier with more distance between their eyes and combs.

I think you mentioned earlier about liking the width of the legs on some of this year's hatch ... how is that coming along? And how are your pullets? Any prospects?

Edited because I typed "mails" instead of "males."

 

[Zanna]

Yay! Pictures!

I think they're looking great! Good size, nicely colored legs. They sure look healthy. And you have choices! I envy you even though I do understand choosing can be a challenge. How many Delaware cockerels do you have to choose from?

I also love the wing carriage in Type 1. I love the photo of the huge bulbous chest, he looks like he's going to pop. So far my females have more of that look than my males, so I'm waiting and hoping.

Type 2's feathers do look more "organized," which is one thing I'm hoping for this year (tighter feathering to help protect the females during breeding time), but their bodies also look a little more lumpy at this stage. Isn't it nice to see some white on at least some of the feathers? I think mine look lighter every day. And I agree about liking the rounder heads ... I'm not sure about the SOP for that as long as there is some width, but they do look a little friendlier with more distance between their eyes and combs.

I think you mentioned earlier about liking the width of the legs on some of this year's hatch ... how is that coming along? And how are your pullets? Any prospects?

Edited because I typed "mails" instead of "males."

I think I have culled down to about a dozen cockerals at this point and am letting them grow out. Choices for me are not always good, I toil over making the right ones! The Moms have been giving me the bulbous chests as the three cockerals I used this year are all more shallow than I would like to see. Many of the youngsters wings have sorted themselves out. Time/growth changes a lot. My New hampshires went through a stage where wings looked awful and I thought I was in trouble. Most all grew out perfectly eventually.

I study the SOP pics and read the standard and I do not think the feather type on my #1 cockerals is what we want. Anyone else?

Here are some of this seasons pullets. A few have close to correctly coloured tails but none as good as their moms. I have no idea how to go about correcting this. Many losses this season to coyotes and hawks. I may have had one correctly coloured but I will never know. Thinking I have culled down to about 10 at this point. Many had such dark black markings, way overcoloured.

 

[LeslieDJoyce]

Zanna, your females from last year had great color, and your breeding males had extra color, so it looks like now you have more of a middle ground with color and are making nice progress with type. My guess is you'll be able to select good breeders from this batch and that next season the color of both sexes will improve. Particularly for the chicks you get from breeding the F5 males back to your F4 females.

I'm more the opposite. I'm guessing I'll make more progress from the pen where I put F5 females in with my one F4 male.

 

[finnfur]

Zanna
You might take Type 1 [ #1 pic] and breed to very heavy type and light marked hen and see what you get.
To quote Walt when I said I only had one nice marked Cockerel but was on small size- "you never know but he might be carrying large genes "
Your Cockerels don't seem to be having the wing issues others are ??

Well the molt appears to be on full swing here since tail feathers have been disappearing for about 4 weeks and egg production is averaging 1/2 egg a day [7 hens].
And that includes DWs two EEs one of which is our best layer.

Heres a Pic of " Poly Pincushion" - ya think the molt is on LOL

She looks the same from the back also .