Delawares from kathyinmo

[finnfur]

Hahahaha!

I think we're going to have some green pasture soon. We harvested a crop out of the field up next to the poultry area last year, and Dad got chicken forage seeding instructions from some poultry Extension dude up in Washington State, but we had such a dry spring and summer the seeds barely rooted before the summer dormancy. We got a little rain last week, now I see little clover leaves out there, and it is very gratifying.

I know I have pleasant coops, but has anyone else noticed that their Dels like to hang around indoors a lot? They'll go out foraging several times a day, and will always come out when I'm in the area, but so often when I go out to the coop they're all indoors. I do have troughs outside as well as inside ... two little black DelaMutts from the last clutch still like me to spoon feed them.

I have noted ours stay out all day but run in out to get some vittles [ inside pellet feeder] - but they are not foraging - forage early and late unless its cloudy - if sunny they go under trailer or under grapevines where there is shade mid day- even in winter when cold they are out but still take the mid day break under trailer - instinct when resting as protection from hawks I guess -

When you get seed forage seed mix let us know mix

I usually plant whatever the local farmers plant for erosion controll after fall tilling- usually here ats winter wheat or cereal rye and I mix some clover in - they love clover

 

[LeslieDJoyce]

I have noted ours stay out all day but run in out to get some vittles [ inside pellet feeder] - but they are not foraging - forage early and late unless its cloudy - if sunny they go under trailer or under grapevines where there is shade mid day- even in winter when cold they are out  but still take the mid day break under trailer - instinct when resting as protection from hawks I guess - 

When you get seed forage seed mix let us know mix

I usually plant whatever the local farmers plant for erosion controll after fall tilling- usually here ats winter wheat or cereal rye and I mix some clover in - they love clover

We use rye for cover crop. It sprouts fast.

I gave Dad a ton of research about poultry pasture planting ... based on particularly nutritious and low-growing white clover. He decided to re-do the research, and found the guy up in Washington, and I have no clue who that was or what he eventually settled on for the seeding. I've asked. I'll press again as now is a great time for everyone to think about fall seedlings.

White clover is really great poultry forage for lots of reasons. It stays greener longer than some other things -- winter and summer. It has a high protein content. It has little leaves so it is perfect size and shape for good crop action. And if you get a low-growing variety it doesn't overwhelm the birds or need constant mowing.

 

[finnfur]

We use rye for cover crop. It sprouts fast.

I gave Dad a ton of research about poultry pasture planting ... based on particularly nutritious and low-growing white clover. He decided to re-do the research, and found the guy up in Washington, and I have no clue who that was or what he eventually settled on for the seeding. I've asked. I'll press again as now is a great time for everyone to think about fall seedlings.

White clover is really great poultry forage for lots of reasons. It stays greener longer than some other things -- winter and summer. It has a high protein content. It has little leaves so it is perfect size and shape for good crop action. And if you get a low-growing variety it doesn't overwhelm the birds or need constant mowing.

Rye is good it puts nitrogen back in soil - and Clover is even better. We plant wildlife plots and the clover plots usually get overtaken with weeds in about 2>3 years when the nitrogen gets up high . We then rotate to another forage for a year or two depleting the nitrogen and go back to Clover again. Save money on fertilizer . The only draw back to clover is in summer during long dry spells it withers and goes dormant but the Deer have plenty other to eat during the summer . However It doesn't die then comes back in fall/winter. We are usually using Ladino clover here but I found a strain of that developed thats more drought tolerant called Durano - a lot of it is planted in mid US - We planted one plot with it and it seems to be better in drought but this is its first summer and we didn't get the long summer dry spell this year.

 

[LeslieDJoyce]

Rye is good it puts nitrogen back in soil - and Clover is even better. We plant wildlife plots and the clover plots usually get overtaken with weeds in about 2>3 years when the nitrogen gets up high . We then rotate to another forage for a year or two depleting the nitrogen and go back to Clover again. Save money on fertilizer . The only draw back to clover is in summer during long dry spells it withers and goes dormant but the Deer have plenty other to eat during the summer . However It doesn't die then comes back in fall/winter. We are usually using Ladino clover here but I found a strain of that developed thats more drought tolerant called Durano - a lot of it is planted in mid US - We planted one plot with it and it seems to be better in drought but this is its first summer and we didn't get the long summer dry spell this year.

Absolutely everything goes dormant here in the summer, and then again in winter, and of course the weeds are the first things to green up in. Clover seems to hang on a little longer than other stuff, maybe.

There are so many types of clover. Some are better for forage, but others flower really well and attract bugs. There are even "micro" or "mini" clovers that can be planted in place of lawns, which could be really great for people who want to "pasture" their chickens in a more urban setting.

Clover seed is grown in the Willamette Valley, so there is an Oregon Clover Commission. Their website has some general info about different types of clover ... I wish it had more detailed information on each specific variety.
http://www.oregonclover.org/

This link has a little more user-friendly listing of different varieties of clover, and it's a seed catalog.
http://www.outsidepride.com/seed/clover-seed/

I would think if a person wants to try a good type of clover/pasture mix for their specific area, they could get some advice from their local Extension Service. This link can help people in the USA with that.
http://www.csrees.usda.gov/Extension/

Older poultry books, which presumed pastured birds, describe poultry pasture as "clover pasture." One of the great things about clover, besides the higher protein content, is that it doesn't get wound up in the crop of the bird like grasses can.

This PDF has a section on forages ... starts on page 12. Profitable Poultry - Sustainable Agriculture Research and Education
It only has a tiny amount of info, but from two good sources with experience pasturing both meat and laying birds ...
"Joel Salatin has established what he calls a “permanent
polyculture” of clovers and grasses in his pastures,
with varieties of native grasses, broadleaves, clovers,
chicories, oats and rye that mature at different times of
the season. His chickens will “eat almost anything as long
as it’s not too tall and not too tough,” he said.

"Oregon egg producer Robert Plamondon has found
that pasture research from the early 1900s still applies.
“Everything I’ve read points to oats as the ideal coolseason
green feed,” he said, “while ladino clover, alfalfa
and, to a lesser extent, other clovers are better summer
feeds. My own experience with oats has been very favorable.”


So ... if you're seeding a seasonal pasture in the Pacific Northwest, oat for winter!

A related note about clover ... I know they make hay from clover, and I have even occasionally seen references to clover pellets. I was trying to source some, because I use ground/pelleted hay in my Fermented Feed mixture, and would prefer to use something with a higher protein content than Timothy hay pellets, but it needs to be something that has no potentiality for GMOs (so not alfalfa). My current approach to avoiding GMOs in my feed is to completely avoid GMO crops ... too much fraud to trust anything else, IMO. I'm having no joy in sourcing clover meal or pellets. Does anyone have a line on that?

 

[rancher hicks]

Rye is good it puts nitrogen back in soil - and Clover is even better. We plant wildlife plots and the clover plots usually get overtaken with weeds in about 2>3 years when the nitrogen gets up high . We then rotate to another forage for a year or two depleting the nitrogen and go back to Clover again. Save money on fertilizer . The only draw back to clover is in summer during long dry spells it withers and goes dormant but the Deer have plenty other to eat during the summer . However It doesn't die then comes back in fall/winter. We are usually using Ladino clover here but I found a strain of that developed thats more drought tolerant called Durano - a lot of it is planted in mid US - We planted one plot with it and it seems to be better in drought but this is its first summer and we didn't get the long summer dry spell this year.

Absolutely everything goes dormant here in the summer, and then again in winter, and of course the weeds are the first things to green up in. Clover seems to hang on a little longer than other stuff, maybe.

There are so many types of clover. Some are better for forage, but others flower really well and attract bugs. There are even "micro" or "mini" clovers that can be planted in place of lawns, which could be really great for people who want to "pasture" their chickens in a more urban setting.

Clover seed is grown in the Willamette Valley, so there is an Oregon Clover Commission. Their website has some general info about different types of clover ... I wish it had more detailed information on each specific variety.
http://www.oregonclover.org/

This link has a little more user-friendly listing of different varieties of clover, and it's a seed catalog.
http://www.outsidepride.com/seed/clover-seed/

I would think if a person wants to try a good type of clover/pasture mix for their specific area, they could get some advice from their local Extension Service. This link can help people in the USA with that.
http://www.csrees.usda.gov/Extension/

Older poultry books, which presumed pastured birds, describe poultry pasture as "clover pasture." One of the great things about clover, besides the higher protein content, is that it doesn't get wound up in the crop of the bird like grasses can.

This PDF has a section on forages ... starts on page 12. Profitable Poultry - Sustainable Agriculture Research and Education
It only has a tiny amount of info, but from two good sources with experience pasturing both meat and laying birds ...
"Joel Salatin has established what he calls a “permanent
polyculture” of clovers and grasses in his pastures,
with varieties of native grasses, broadleaves, clovers,
chicories, oats and rye that mature at different times of
the season. His chickens will “eat almost anything as long
as it’s not too tall and not too tough,” he said.

"Oregon egg producer Robert Plamondon has found
that pasture research from the early 1900s still applies.
“Everything I’ve read points to oats as the ideal coolseason
green feed,” he said, “while ladino clover, alfalfa
and, to a lesser extent, other clovers are better summer
feeds. My own experience with oats has been very favorable.”


So ... if you're seeding a seasonal pasture in the Pacific Northwest, oat for winter!

A related note about clover ... I know they make hay from clover, and I have even occasionally seen references to clover pellets. I was trying to source some, because I use ground/pelleted hay in my Fermented Feed mixture, and would prefer to use something with a higher protein content than Timothy hay pellets, but it needs to be something that has no potentiality for GMOs (so not alfalfa). My current approach to avoiding GMOs in my feed is to completely avoid GMO crops ... too much fraud to trust anything else, IMO. I'm having no joy in sourcing clover meal or pellets. Does anyone have a line on that?

On the clover front. Red clover is not good for sheep. White clover is. Chickens like clover. I've planted or rather threw some seed around a couple of years. I didn't know about the Red clover before then but do now. Only white here from now on.

 

[crazyhen]

Has anyone tried alfalfa? There is a perinneal form and an annual form. I have not tried it yet but was thinking about it for next spring.

 

[LeslieDJoyce]

Has anyone tried alfalfa? There is a perinneal form and an annual form. I have not tried it yet but was thinking about it for next spring.

There may be some in our mix. The only issue is it gets kinda tall for the birds. I wonder if it can be mowed to keep it short.

Alfalfa is a legume, like clover. It has a similar nutritional profile.

 

[Zanna]

There may be some in our mix. The only issue is it gets kinda tall for the birds. I wonder if it can be mowed to keep it short.

Alfalfa is a legume, like clover. It has a similar nutritional profile.

When conditions are right, alfalfa gets cut and bailed 3 - 4 times per season so I am sure it can be mowed

 

[finnfur]

No have not tried Alfalfa - have heard you can buy them in pellets but have not tried .
We stick with white Ladino clover here - I have found what you can buy at local farm supply is the best for your area.
We mow the clover as soon as it it gets over 7" and set mower at high level - don't want it to seed to thicken up.
I believe the Red clover is more for cattle grazing and hay but I'm not a expert on this even though I did stay
at a Holiday Inn Express one time .

Some people rave about Joel Salatin operation but I'm not impressed- looks like a high scale Perdue chicken grazing operation.
But he's making money at it so more power to him. Its just not my type of operation.

 

[LeslieDJoyce]

When conditions are right, alfalfa gets cut and bailed 3 - 4 times per season so I am sure it can be mowed

I knew that. But somehow my wee brain didn't imagine the inbetween stages ...

No have not tried Alfalfa - have heard you can buy them in pellets but have not tried .
We stick with white Ladino clover here - I have found what you can buy at local farm supply is the best for your area.
We mow the clover as soon as it it gets over 7" and set mower at high level - don't want it to seed to thicken up.
I believe the Red clover is more for cattle grazing and hay but I'm not a expert on this even though I did stay 
at a Holiday Inn Express one time .

Some people rave about [COLOR=333333]Joel Salatin operation but I'm not impressed- looks like a high scale Perdue chicken grazing operation.[/COLOR]
[COLOR=333333]But he's making money at it so more power to him. Its just not my type of operation.[/COLOR]

I have some issues with Joel Salatin, too.

That other guy (Plamondon) is local-ish to me ... he and his wife. I find their experience pertinent to my area. He uses the same independent feed mill that I do. I see pallets of their various feeds awaiting pickup.

I was just talking to Dad about overseeding with oats for winter. He said oats sure don't take long to get super tall, so it would be a good crop for people who like to mow ... like alfalfa. We tend to be very busy during winter. It's our harvest & shipping season (we grow nursery stock). Poultry projects get very de-prioritized. I need to keep it simple.