destruction and disposal orders HELP

[AmyLynn2374]

Oh, wow... just wow...

So anyone who is poor can't take care of their animals?
Only the higher socioeconomic levels care about their animals?

I've been trying to stay out of the arguing, but that was lumping a huge group of people into a very prejudiced view...

Good to know...

Yeah, that was not worded very well at all.

From what I understand, one of the reasons this strain is so virulent is because it's a hybrid of two different strains. A mutation of this hybrid would go one of two ways, it would be much more destructive OR it would be less invasive.. Much like the first strains of HIV were more virulent, and later strains more manageable.

Chickenvet, all the links say what I said.
http://www.aphis.usda.gov/animal_health/downloads/animal_diseases/ai/QA-producerquestionsHPAI.pdf

1. Quarantine—restricting movement of poultry and poultry-moving equipment into and out of the control area;
2. Eradicate—humanely euthanizing the affected flock(s);

http://www.aphis.usda.gov/animal_health/downloads/animal_diseases/ai/ER-DepopDisposal.pdf

Federal law gives APHIS the authority to depopulate affected herds and flocks to contain or stop the spread of the disease

http://www.aphis.usda.gov/animal_health/downloads/animal_diseases/ai/QA-MassDepopCarcassDisposal.pdf

In responding to the detections, USDA must depopulate affected flocks to prevent the spread of this highly contagious disease to additional flocks and must safely dispose of all depopulated birds.

You know I admit that in the process of reading the links you provided I may have missed it, and I concede that you are potentially correct in your assessment that "The farm is quarantined until depopulation can occur." But I have not seen it, so can you point it out to me where it does say just those things. Because everything I have read clearly states affected flocks. Not potentially exposed or exposed flocks. I will be glad to admit you were right and I was wrong should that information be provided.

John, I don't know you, but I can see you are a kind and peaceful man. The world needs more people like you. I hope and pray that your flock continues to test negative and you do not have to euthanize your flock. Your internal strength just knowing it may still be a possibility is inspiring. I will be among those that cheer for you when your flock is determined to be disease free, and if it should not, I will be among those that mourn your loss with you. Do not feel guilty that you didn't fill out paperwork or you didn't do your due dilligence. I admire your taking personal responsibility for your actions. But taking responsibility for your actions (or inactions) does not mean that you deserve to lose everything when there is no current disease in your flock. That you have fought for your birds says everything. You are right to fight for them, and should the unthinkable happen, you will do the right thing. That is the kind of person you are. Stay strong. Stay you.

• Sylvester
• My city has NEVER done door to door knocking about rabies vaccination. NEVER. I am not new to the dog owning rodeo. I have bred dogs and owned them for 30 years, and never has there EVER been any department that knocks on your door or leaves a notice that your vaccines are out of date and to renew them.
• Nor has my city EVER done door to door knocking or leaving notification that it's time to renew your license, which is two different things. Yes, the Dept of Health will send you a notice that it's time to renew your license but if you don't there is no follow up.
• What DOES happen is if there is an incident, it is asked is the dog vaccinated, and where is the proof. People are very rarely cited for not having a current license. But again, it's based on a current incident involving the dog, usually at large. That's about it. Different cities, different protocols.

By the way, if my vet sent me notices about such things, I would get a new vet. I am an adult, I don't need hand holding to remind me to do what I know I need to do. And my vets KNOW this. The ONLY reason I missed my mothers dogs was because a) they were my MOTHER'S dogs, not mine, and b) I was too concerned with dealing with my mother dying to think about her dogs needing their rabies.
Be that as it may, I have made an appointment for her furblobs with my vet, and they will be up to date on rabies next week. I would have remembered anyway, sooner or later, because my own dogs are due. You just reminded me that my appointment for my dogs also needed to include my mothers, lol. Doc is going to have a grand time when we show up looking like something out of a Dog Whisperer commercial, lolol.

xs 2 all the way around. No one in our area comes knocking on our door either. The town sends a notification if you don't relisence your animal, or report that you no longer have the animal. If you don't reply or relisence you'll get a couple more and then they stop. I do believe the vet sends a reminder when the shots are due though. I know one of the two vets that we have used does, just don't remember which one...lol

If you lived in my neighborhood you'd understand what I mean. The houses are 60+ years old and not very high in value as far as homes go. Some of us old timers have managed to update these CrackerJack Box homes replumbing, rewiring electrical, adding attics, etc - these homes were built in the era when building codes were very lax and materials used were poor and jerry-rigged - so old that one of our walls smoldered from bad wires and many homes in the area have burned down. Therefore the houses that haven't been upgraded are selling very cheap and lower income levels are qualifying for these homes and doing their own repairs and additions without permits, etc. I'm not disparaging low income families as that is the story of my life. It's just when 8 individuals move into a 2-bedroom home less than 900 sq ft you know there is no safety-consciousness there - especially when their dogs run loose, they leave junk piles everywhere, their kids break into neigjhborhood yards, etc. The county is trying to improve the neighborhood by discouraging old cars propped on blocks and vehicles parked on grass, or party tents left in front yard in shreds, etc, but it's a losing battle. It only takes 2-3 homes like this in the block to ruin it for the whole neighborhood. A house behind us was foreclosed and vacant for 2 years and they abandoned their dog and cats when they left. The house next door to us has been vacant for 15 years and vagrants use it to camp out from time to time depending on how often the sheriff's sweep through the area and how quickly they respond to neighbor calls. Sorry if you were offended but after a while it's obvious there are some poor with absolutely no class and take on animals they absolutely have no business accumulating.

Oh, I think we all know the situations you are talking about, everybody deals with like people in their towns/neighborhoods. They way you lumped low income families together and stereotyped the poor is what is offensive: We don't say anything about neighbors that we know are responsible, who walk their dogs on a leash, and who aren't in the low socio-economic levels. It's the poor who pack their yards with chickens, ducks, and pets that we know aren't being cared very well with vaccinations or receiving medical care. How that comes across is: We don't report the well off people that don't follow the rules, but we do the poor people because they are the ones that don't care for their animals.

I know what kind of families you are talking about, seen plenty myself that go out and get animal after animal when they can't afford the first one or two they got. (Got a couple people in my family like this. Burns my ***** too.) I myself am low income. I'm a single mom and I take care of my elderly father. He gets social security and we get a pension from the VA for me to be able to stay home and take care of him. We definitely don't surpass low income. Both our dog and cat are up to date on their shots and I just got the cat spayed a couple months ago. My little flock, (I have less than 50 birds.) 25 in the coops (which I worked my butt off to make sure they had nice roomy coops,) and 20 2 week old chicks in my brooder. You can bet that everyone of them is cared for and they have everything they need.

I'd also like to point out that there are many middle class and upper class that do not care for their animals or treat their animals well. Let's look at the dog fighting rings and such. One word comes to mind Michael Vick. He sure wasn't poor was he?? And there are plenty of higher income people who have absolutely no class (maybe moreso than the poor) and take on animals that they shouldn't. Maybe not because they can't afford them, but they don't value them and hey, they can always get another one. It's also the ones with money that import exotics and animals that should be left in their habitats and not put in cages to suffer depression, sure as heck isn't us poor people.

So, yes, while it is understood what you are saying, it was also way wrong how it was put.

 

[MrsBachbach]

I don't know how I missed this post of yours but yet more classic examples of 3 other farms treated unfairly .
per the farm in Iowa that shipped the eggs , from my understanding the incubation period for this flu is up to 17 days.
see under clinical features :
http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/avian_influenza/en/
wonder how much time had passed from when the farm in Iowa tested positive and the eggs had been shipped/received by the people in Georgia ?
Paragraph 4 in the story : "That farm had not tested positive for the avian flu when the purchases were made but has subsequently been found to be infected."
If the eggs the buyers got were out of that 17 day incubation period time frame then what a knee jerk reaction on the behalf of Georgia DOA .
John, you got darn lucky, all I gotta say.

You do know that the link you provided is discussing a different type of AI virus? It is discussing the H5N1 and H7N9 which are not the viruses present in the US.
The US is dealing with H5N2 and I believe the other less prevelent H5N9. Neither of these cause disease in humans like the ones mentioned in the link you supplied. They may have different incubation periods and symptoms too.

 

[Blooie]

Lots of links, opinions, information, and some criticism going on at the moment. Some of its helpful, some is scary, and sometimes it's downright confusing.

Please don't lose sight of two important points.....John won his fight for quarantine rather than destruction, and he has stated - repeatedly - that if he had a single sick bird or positive test result he would have immediately complied with all directives from the authorities. Period.

I just don't want his courage in sharing his story or his resolve - the resolve to do the right thing, either way - to be negated by controversy over blame, expertise, or debate.

We all need to be careful. Right now I'm in eastern South Dakota visiting my family, and I'm about 30 miles from John's Ground Zero. Tomorrow I'm going out to my sisters farm. She has chicks for the first time and could use some help with her setup. I'm nervous as can be, and although this is my own sister I'm going out there with my eyes wide open and I'm taking what precautions I can. It'll be a week before I'm home with my birds and I have some old clothes with me here that I won't mind tossing before I even arrive back here at my in-town sister's house where we're staying. I also have a supply of disposable gloves and will be as careful as I can be. But there are simply no guarantees and this thread has helped me see that. A month earlier and I would have been wandering around all over out there without any thought to what leaving an AI positive state and going home to an AI negative state could mean.

 

[Mtn Laurel]

Have read through this thread and wanted to thank John for sharing this information. I'm a bit surprised that I'm just a little over 2 hours away in the northern part of Virginia yet I didn't hear a peep about this from the media. I initially heard about it on a FB board and then had to search to find one item from a radio station. I'm surprised that VA news outlets didn't pick this up.

Am glad to hear that the powers that be didn't destroy the flock although I understand that other flocks in other states that had identical circumstances were destroyed. I thought that determining what would occur was something handled at the federal level but am wondering if the individual states have some sort of input. John, was Virginia involved in the decision making process at all?

 

[allbirds4me]

Quote:
your so right, thank you for pointing that out !
Curious if you or anyone else knows the incubation period for the H5N2 and the H5N9?

 

[MysteriaSdrassa]

I believe H5N2 was about 21 days if I am remembering correctly,,,, and H5N9 is really short, like around 5-7 days,, there is also a vacine for H5N9,, it has been floating around north america for some time now,, I remember a outbreak of H5N9 back in the mid 90s that affected turkeys up in canada and was considered pretty minor.

 

[johnskoi]

i'll post more tomorrow .... ALL is good

... felt more like mother's day than father;s day

....

 

[Chickielady]

Like you already! I may be going way far back but there's always a reason to be paranoid when you're dealing with the "Peter Principle". NPIP is a good thing, I think some do voluntarily. But those who have the job of enforcing, should actually know what they're doing. It's fortunate/unfortunate that BYC members end up being the most educated of any thing involving chickens.

Exactly !

 

[Chickielady]

I've read that they (USA?) are importing eggs from the Netherlands and China.

I don't know if these are fertile eggs to replenish the birds destroyed at hatcheries, or new meaties for Tyson or Purdue or ??? Whatever!! ALL I could think of was baby forumula in China that killed babies, dog foods from China that killed dogs. Why on earth would anyone want to import eggs from there?

This nasty strain of AI Came from China ! And it is still ravaging China, and all the islands south.

 

[Chickielady]

While I understand your point, I have a question.

Has there been a confirmed case of this being spread through an egg shipment?

I'm not being argumentative, I honestly don't know.

Personally, I have stopped receiving eggs from anyone.

I truly doubt this will shut down the shipment of eggs and birds, although I can see it as a way to increase regulations.

This is not the first time there had been an outbreak of AI in the USA. There was one in 1983-84 in the eastern USA. There was also AI detected in 2004, although it was near the same area and protocols and biosecurity were already in place from the previous outbreak.

I believe what happened this time was it hit a distant area that didn't have the same protocols in place, leading to it's rapid spread.

This is a learning experience for everyone since it is getting national attention and widespread discussion thanks to this here internet thing.

The AI we had in this country previously, was a different, and much more "nice" version of AI.
There are many strains, with one strain that has even 'morphed' into a version we humans can get from our poultry (also a Chinese Strain)
But the nasty strain(s) going through our country right now, originated in China, and is still killing fowl there, and in neighboring countries.
How it got to Canada, where it moved south to the USA, is what I'd like to know ?
Read more about the disease here....it explains it much better than I do:

https://theconversation.com/five-things-you-need-to-know-about-bird-flu-37183