destruction and disposal orders HELP

[MysteriaSdrassa]

Well how far down do you want to go? Short term temperature variations (warming and cooling from sun etc) are only effective to a depth of about 1 foot 6 inches. Considering that most soil temps across the US, which are measured at a depth of 6 inches (far deeper than a chicken will dig) are now over 60 degrees,, that is plenty warm enough to kill off the H5N1 virus at 2 weeks or less. Much of the soil temps are well into the 70s and even 80s now making that time drop down to days and even hours in some areas.
http://www.greencastonline.com/tools/SoilTempMaps.aspx
After that, because of the high thermal inertia of the soil, the temperature fluctuations at the surface of the ground are diminished as the depth of the ground increases. At a depth of 9 feet soil temp will slowly fluctuate between 60-77 degrees and if you go as far as 82 feet the soil temperature remains constant at a balmy 72 degrees. There is a formula that explains this called the Kasuda formula ,, and if you really need me to I can dig you up an Abstract on that as well.

Edited for typo,, was supposed to be H5N1 but I was tired and hit H1N1 which is swine flu,, sorry

 

[seminolewind]

Quote: Me too!

 

[Sylvester017]

Well how far down do you want to go? Short term temperature variations (warming and cooling from sun etc) are only effective to a depth of about 1 foot 6 inches. Considering that most soil temps across the US, which are measured at a depth of 6 inches (far deeper than a chicken will dig) are now over 60 degrees,, that is plenty warm enough to kill off the H1N1 virus at 2 weeks or less. Much of the soil temps are well into the 70s and even 80s now making that time drop down to days and even hours in some areas.
http://www.greencastonline.com/tools/SoilTempMaps.aspx
After that, because of the high thermal inertia of the soil, the temperature fluctuations at the surface of the ground are diminished as the depth of the ground increases. At a depth of 9 feet soil temp will slowly fluctuate between 60-77 degrees and if you go as far as 82 feet the soil temperature remains constant at a balmy 72 degrees. There is a formula that explains this called the Kasuda formula ,, and if you really need me to I can dig you up an Abstract on that as well.

Well, now that the science is fairly exhausted

, the question remains - will this newest AI virus be effectively killed in soil receiving sustained heatwave temps which is the question that started this interesting dialog.

Any way we look at it those darn wildlife water fowl will keep transferring contagion every migratory season regardless of the number of viruses that might be eradicated in the soil.

 

[ChicKat]

Yay John....

just 2 more days!

we will have to have an online party on this thread to celebrate. ;O)

 

[johnskoi]

So happy to hear that!!

I have a question for you-out of pure curiosity. Do you process any of your own birds? I'm one of those people who despite the fact I love chicken for dinner. I still have to buy mine from a store. On my she said/he said thread they are all talking about processing and how good what breeds taste and I am like

. I couldn't eat anything I raised....lol I know I am the minority, I just can't do that...lol If I had to be self sustaning I'd die if there wasn't vegetation...lol

while i respect the people who raise their own food, it's just not my thing... i bond with **** near everything as it hatches here (just so i can be a little sad when it dies --- lol).... when i was on long island, my silkie population was periodically ridiculously high .... while i couldn't do it myself, there were a couple of younger guys that would take 20- 40 silkie/sg roosters (the uglier or ones that were too rough on the girls) at a time for food for themselves.... if i HAD to eat them to SURVIVE, i wouldn't hesitate --- hope i never see that day

my excess silkie/sg roos right now are kept w/ my peas..... #'s are getting a little high again.... when i'm NPIP , i may offer them up for adoption or food ..

 

[johnskoi]

Yay John....

just 2 more days!

we will have to have an online party on this thread to celebrate. ;O)

....twist my arm

....

 

[MrsBachbach]

I believe the book said it's a hard surface. And/or Marek's is spread by infected chicken dander being inhaled by another chicken. The chicken dander is also all over anyone's property and even their house and one will probably never be able to eliminate all the dander in the area of Marek's carriers. Most likely being in my house, my last incubator hatch was in my closet, then the chicks were transferred to a spare or guest room -the least used. Then we gowned and scrubbed before entering and did not lean over the box they were living in for 3 weeks. And handled them as little as possible.

Marek's in chicken dander can live for years.

Well, that's exactly what I know about it. Lives in the chicken dander. That being said, why would it not live on eggs, in the dander? There is bound to be chicken dander on eggs, just like there is dander on everything else. Chicks hatch, inhale the dander. That's my logical conclusion. Wash the eggs, dander gone.

 

[MysteriaSdrassa]

Well, now that the science is fairly exhausted

, the question remains - will this newest AI virus be effectively killed in soil receiving sustained heatwave temps which is the question that started this interesting dialog.

Any way we look at it those darn wildlife water fowl will keep transferring contagion every migratory season regardless of the number of viruses that might be eradicated in the soil.

That is true,,, however,, this is not the first outbreak of AI that has happened in the US and North America,,, it is the first time for H5N1 though,, but back in 2004 Texas had an outbreak of H5N2,, another highly pathonogetic strain. There was another that happened in New Jersey area around that same time of a different strain, I don't remember the type, an H7 I think,,, there was another that hit turkey farms back in the mid 70s,, or was it 80s? (i'm getting old and the ol memory box glitches sometimes) AI is not something new here, but this certainly has been one of the worst. I hesitate even to say worst because I don't currently have the statistical numbers of actual cases in past out breaks. However I do know that statisticly there were only 223 confirmed cases here in the US (sorry Canada,, i don't have your numbers),,, is that a high number? I don't know, I'm not an expert on pandemic diseases. Personally, I think that is a pretty small number considering that the 2009 H1N1 (swine flu) outbreak, cases numbered in the 10s of thousands. On the other hand, close to 50 million birds were killed because of it,, but many of those birds were killed outright as a "just in case" measure. I'm not 100% convinced that was the right thing to do, flocks that were housed in sepperate buildings could have been monitored, much like John's were, but instead entire farms were eradicated, but I suspect that would not have been as cost effective, for the farmers or the government. I would also point out that this outbreak hit primarily large poultry operations,, where large numbers of birds are confined in tight living conditions. The UDSA has maintained a site that is updated daily on this outbreak, it lists each and every case in every state that was affected and USED to even list whether it was a commercial operation or backyard flock. Well over 95% of them were commercial operations, not backyard owners. And there have been some avian vets that have said that our backyard girls may just be more resistant to this because of healthier living conditions.
Anyway, I'm digressing,, the thing is,, do we really want to blame the waterfowl and other migratory birds who can also carry this? I mean, they have been flying these routes for hundreds of years. Or should we instead be looking toward perhaps better management and treatment for the animals that are providing our food? I'll get off my soapbox now,, but it is something to think about.

John,, I wish you the best for you and your birds,, personally I don't think you would have had to even worry about if you kept the eggs, having seen the evidence that they were virus free,, but it was your choice.

For those who want to peak at the USDA site,,
http://www.aphis.usda.gov/wps/porta.../sa_detections_by_states/ct_ai_pacific_flyway

 

[MrsBachbach]

We've had various birds over the past 68 yrs - Chickens, Ducks, Geese, Blue-fronted Amazon Parrot, American and English Budgerigars, and Cockatiels, and it has been habit for us to wash before and after handling any bird or their feed, and never offered leftovers that had been eaten previously by humans (my farm Mom wouldn't even toss melon rinds eaten by humans to the flocks but only served the birds pre-cut rinds). People kiss their budgies and allow the little birds to peck in their mouth or teeth and as cute as that is to see in a video it is the worst for the health of the birds. We hate to imagine it but we humans are germ-y and domesticated birds/pets are prone to infections from us.

I currently have a white front amazon. Recent vet trip and bird was given baytril. Vet said tests came back with some very nasty bacteria bird was carrying. She didn't expound on that. So...maybe right there. She loves eating what we eat and sunflower seeds and nuts. Which is what led to the vet trip. Bad diet. The seeds that is.
All that said, I really need to find her another home. My husband is allergic to almost everything anymore, birds being one of them. At least the chickens are outside and he wears a mask when helping me with anything.

 

[MrsBachbach]

Hi - it's not the dirt that's bad for them - it's the bacteria in human saliva that can be dangerous to a bird - any bird. We've had several birds over the past 68 years - Chickens, Ducks, Geese, American and English Budgerigars, Cockatiels, and a Blue-fronted Amazon. Depending on a bird's immune system there are human saliva bacterium that can make birds sick or die. It's cute to kiss our birds, and tempting to throw them human leftover food, but it's just a practice over several decades that we chose not to employ for safety sake - there are so many diseases/maladies that chickens face with no preventative vaccines or cures that if we can help our birds in one small way by not exposing them to our germ-y saliva I know we are doing a good thing. If a bird doesn't get sick from human saliva you dodged a bullet but we just don't take chances. My DD's philosophy and warning to us is not to feed "people" food to her animals - she makes their food herself and no leftovers except fresh-made/fresh-cut ingredients from food preparation/cooking are ever used.

Well, I guess I will swill some Listerine around in my mouth prior to enjoying the corn on the cob. Might not taste so great after that though.