Developing My Own Breed Of Large Gamefowl For Free Range Survival (Junglefowl x Liege)

[Florida Bullfrog]

Very interesting. Your theory about wild turkeys being larger because of their range is even more so. I noticed Molpet has liked a couple of our recent posts. Molpet also posts on another thread about heritage turkeys and electric netting that I have been monitoring since I am raising them for the first time. They are 10 weeks old today. I am planning to pasture them during the day while getting them into a 12' x 16' shelter at night for roosting. I would love to let them run loose on my 2.5 acre wooded lot and let them roost in the trees but Molpet has me spooked about Great Horned Owls. In fact I already have one hanging around the grow out coop and pen.

I had a very robust flock of heritage turkeys. They’d roam at least 1/4 mile off my farm’s borders, crossing about 40 acres of adjoining woods with visibility limited to about 6-10 feet. Over time, the resident bobcat killed all but one. The remaining hen roamed my 40 acres during the spring seeking a wild gobbler to breed, but otherwise stayed around the farmyard. I was impressed that she was never caught for the 2 years she wandered during spring. She died being ran over by a family member when she squatted for the truck’s tires (due to imprinting and/or seeing her reflection in the truck).

I am convinced turkeys can be kept free range. I know someone that keeps his own reproducing flock of heritage turkeys with few losses. I, however, don’t wish to experiment further. About the same time I culled or otherwise lost the last non-chicken poultry on the yard is when my disease woes ended. I believe breeding towards immunity (therefore genetic strength of the chickens) is the primary reason serious disease is generally gone. However, I also suspect the other poultry were disease sinks.

Right now my book looks like its a go for the fall. My publisher has booked me for a seminar and a book signing coming up in several weeks. If the book sells well, I intend to do a follow up with other poultry species. But instead of it being my experience, I am going to travel to various farms around the southeast and study how people have established reproducing free range flocks of other kinds of birds and write based on their experiences and advice.

 

[Chicken Heel]

I had a very robust flock of heritage turkeys. They’d roam at least 1/4 mile off my farm’s borders, crossing about 40 acres of adjoining woods with visibility limited to about 6-10 feet. Over time, the resident bobcat killed all but one. The remaining hen roamed my 40 acres during the spring seeking a wild gobbler to breed, but otherwise stayed around the farmyard. I was impressed that she was never caught for the 2 years she wandered during spring. She died being ran over by a family member when she squatted for the truck’s tires (due to imprinting and/or seeing her reflection in the truck).

I am convinced turkeys can be kept free range. I know someone that keeps his own reproducing flock of heritage turkeys with few losses. I, however, don’t wish to experiment further. About the same time I culled or otherwise lost the last non-chicken poultry on the yard is when my disease woes ended. I believe breeding towards immunity (therefore genetic strength of the chickens) is the primary reason serious disease is generally gone. However, I also suspect the other poultry were disease sinks.

Right now my book looks like its a go for the fall. My publisher has booked me for a seminar and a book signing coming up in several weeks. If the book sells well, I intend to do a follow up with other poultry species. But instead of it being my experience, I am going to travel to various farms around the southeast and study how people have established reproducing free range flocks of other kinds of birds and write based on their experiences and advice.

I wish you much success with the book.

 

[Molpet]

Very interesting. Your theory about wild turkeys being larger because of their range is even more so. I noticed Molpet has liked a couple of our recent posts. Molpet also posts on another thread about heritage turkeys and electric netting that I have been monitoring since I am raising them for the first time. They are 10 weeks old today. I am planning to pasture them during the day while getting them into a 12' x 16' shelter at night for roosting. I would love to let them run loose on my 2.5 acre wooded lot and let them roost in the trees but Molpet has me spooked about Great Horned Owls. In fact I already have one hanging around the grow out coop and pen.

Yeah the GHO are a problem here. They got a poult hatched May 10th a little over a week ago. I went a couple years before they found my turkeys.
My solution is to hatch way more than I need and share with the predators.
I have 6 jakes locked up so I have enough to invite to dinner next year. I did this last year and the ones locked up weighed a bit less than the ones running around.

 

[troyer]

Although I didn’t design it this way, this circumstance with the genetically-same but differently-raised flocks will likely prove or disprove a common assertion against this project; that free-ranging will limit the size of the final birds.

I’ve already created some good free rangers through the 3-way blending of Cracker junglefowl hybrids, Liege, and Wahl aseel. The resultant birds simply aren’t any larger than any other typical American gamefowl. I assumed this was because the Cracker and aseel genetics have kept them small, and the larger ones died due to the Marek’s outbreak. These blended birds are fine free range fowl. But my goal for this project is to create a very large free-ranger. Something akin to a wild-turkey-type chicken.

Now I have a group of birds with the generally same genetics from only large parents. Will the nature of free ranging keep the group that thrives physically smaller?

Consider the fact that the turkeys fly very well, I presume that if I would want very large free rangers that survive similarly to turkeys I would need to imitate them as closely as possible.
Turkeys don't have heavy legs compared to the rest of the body. I don't know if adding standard modern games would help with slimming the legs down and away from the coarser leg of the oriental?

 

[Florida Bullfrog]

Consider the fact that the turkeys fly very well, I presume that if I would want very large free rangers that survive similarly to turkeys I would need to imitate them as closely as possible.
Turkeys don't have heavy legs compared to the rest of the body. I don't know if adding standard modern games would help with slimming the legs down and away from the coarser leg of the oriental?

Something I have not seen a satisfactory answer to in my research is the specific difference in the bone structure of oriental and bankivoid gamefowl. It is often asserted that bankivoid gamefowl bones are hollow and oriental gamefowl bones are solid, but I have not seen that hashed out scientifically.

Yes, I do want my “terrorfowl” to be able to fly. At least well enough to tree roost high. I would love for them to be able and inclined to glide like my bankivoids, but that may be too much to ask for.

 

[NatJ]

Something I have not seen a satisfactory answer to in my research is the specific difference in the bone structure of oriental and bankivoid gamefowl. It is often asserted that bankivoid gamefowl bones are hollow and oriental gamefowl bones are solid, but I have not seen that hashed out scientifically.

Maybe butcher one of each, break the bones open, and do a comparison? If you do, please share the results.

 

[SourRoses]

Yes, I do want my “terrorfowl” to be able to fly. At least well enough to tree roost high. I would love for them to be able and inclined to glide like my bankivoids, but that may be too much to ask for.

Sumatra are supposed to be the best fliers, even crossing the ocean to a nearby island. I would think they might be compatible with many of your breeding goals? Two spurs, all the better for stabbing with? lol

 

[SourRoses]

Maybe butcher one of each, break the bones open, and do a comparison? If you do, please share the results.

But don't grind them up to make your bread...

 

[Florida Bullfrog]

Sumatra are supposed to be the best fliers, even crossing the ocean to a nearby island. I would think they might be compatible with many of your breeding goals? Two spurs, all the better for stabbing with? lol

Yes, but they also shrink the body size. My brother bred Sumatras into his line. Made for some great looking birds. But they weren’t giants.

I already have chickens that fly well. My Cracker gamefowl will glide 100 yards with ease to cover long distances. They’d rather fly to me than run if they see me throwing out scratch at the far side of the yard.

The challenge is specifically getting a large oriental gamefowl to fly well. Its a three-fold problem:

1. Their wings are short.

2. They’re heavy.

3. They seem to want to run as a matter of instinct even when they otherwise have the capacity to fly.

I’m working on the wing size. That’s the easiest of the three traits to control. That’s one reason I continue to use Liege in my breeding plan. Liege fighters were created by blending bankivoid and orientals. Crossing the Liege into the oriental lines seems to lend large wing size to the offspring.

But Liege like to run and are heavy, and straight orientals like to run and are heavy. So those traits are being genetically reenforced.

The free range batch of smaller-bodied terrorfowl are roosting high in the trees. Very high. Something around 30 feet or more. They also sometimes try to fly to me when I throw out food. I think what they’re learning from the free range mixed flock is trying to overrule their genetics.

 

[Florida Bullfrog]

Wing size on the Sherman terrorfowl appear to be larger in proportion to the body as either parent. But they have a lot of filling out to do.