Developing My Own Breed Of Large Gamefowl For Free Range Survival (Junglefowl x Liege)

[Appalachian homestead]

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Pics from today of the Cracker x American ("Blueface") stag. I put BF in quotes because that American hen (I'll call her American Hen 1) is the one that lays the bright blue eggs. In the last pic above he's with a pure Cracker pullet from the same brood. He is the last stag on the farm from Number 1, although I have other pure Cracker stags off-farm from Number 1.

I am absolutely continuing with the Cracker x American project concurrently with the Indo project. The N1 stag above just happened to be the first crossing and then N1 died of the apparent snake bite or raptor-talon wound. I have several chicks running around now that are continuing the project, except that they're made up of Hei Hei crossed to the other American hen I have. My plan is to cross the pullets from the Hei Hei x Amer. Hen 2 to the N1 stag above (made up of N1 x Amer. Hen 1) and see where that gets me.

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This layer hen has 11 strong bitties that are all fathered by Indo except the two chipmunk ones, which are Hei-Hei fathered Cracker x Amer. Crosses.

Amer. Hen 1 has another 4 Cracker x Amer. crosses that she is brooding.

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Hei Hei is out on free range and is covering all of the free range hens, including Amer. Hen 2, my layers, my pure Crackers, and Indo's sister.

Awesome. I don't know how you keep everything straight!

 

[Florida Bullfrog]

Awesome. I don't know how you keep everything straight!

I have a system that seems to work. One rooster on free range, the rest in coops at a given time. So by default I know what rooster is breeding which flock.

Hen management is more tricky due to how I flock breed. I can broadly tell one kind of hen's egg from another but can't tell one individual hen from another within a breed. For instance, now that Hei Hei is free range, I know that all Cracker hens on free range are laying pure Cracker eggs (once enough time has passed to make sure Indo's seed if flushed out). But I can't tell one Cracker hen's eggs from another when they lay communally in the nest boxes. Thus if there's a situation where Hei Hei gels really well with one hen and not another in terms of quality of offspring produced, I can't know which specific pairing is making the best chicks. I'm generally content to let nature sort it out though. Good chicks from good parings will survive. Weak chicks will not. Also hens that hide their nests usually have eggs only made up from themselves. Therefore when a hen nests somewhere free range I usually trust that the resulting chicks are hers alone for evaluating quality of the chicks.

On the American hens, it worked out where one lays normal cream colored eggs and the other lays bright blue eggs. So I know which American hen laid which egg. If I know that and know which rooster has access to them, its pretty easy for me to create separate broods between the two hens. That matters to specifically how I plan to breed the Cracker x American crosses. Instead of line breeding them I want to cross the Hei Hei line with the N1 line. With each line having different mothers and different (but related) fathers, the resulting offspring will probably keep the crossed traits but also have fresh genetics so that if I decide to line breed them in the future or then breed them back to pure Crackers I ought not have any inbreeding problems for a long time.

Indo's sister always lays a light tan, nearly round, egg.

Its harder to tell the Liege eggs from the Wyandotte eggs. In the clutch of 11 bittes above, I know two are Cracker x American crosses and the rest are fathered by Indo. But I do not know which of those are Indo x Liege crosses vs Indo x layer crosses. And its possible his genes may dominate enough that I won't be able to see the difference as they grow. Therefore those remaining 9 chicks exist simply to be my free range layers and meat birds. The only birds I'll use as Indo x Liege crosses will be those eggs I get from Indo and the Liege hens out of the coop, where they do not share the coop with any other hens that would lay similar eggs.

 

[Appalachian homestead]

I have a system that seems to work. One rooster on free range, the rest in coops at a given time. So by default I know what rooster is breeding which flock.

Hen management is more tricky due to how I flock breed. I can broadly tell one kind of hen's egg from another but can't tell one individual hen from another within a breed. For instance, now that Hei Hei is free range, I know that all Cracker hens on free range are laying pure Cracker eggs (once enough time has passed to make sure Indo's seed if flushed out). But I can't tell one Cracker hen's eggs from another when they lay communally in the nest boxes. Thus if there's a situation where Hei Hei gels really well with one hen and not another in terms of quality of offspring produced, I can't know which specific pairing is making the best chicks. I'm generally content to let nature sort it out though. Good chicks from good parings will survive. Weak chicks will not. Also hens that hide their nests usually have eggs only made up from themselves. Therefore when a hen nests somewhere free range I usually trust that the resulting chicks are hers alone for evaluating quality of the chicks.

On the American hens, it worked out where one lays normal cream colored eggs and the other lays bright blue eggs. So I know which American hen laid which egg. If I know that and know which rooster has access to them, its pretty easy for me to create separate broods between the two hens. That matters to specifically how I plan to breed the Cracker x American crosses. Instead of line breeding them I want to cross the Hei Hei line with the N1 line. With each line having different mothers and different (but related) fathers, the resulting offspring will probably keep the crossed traits but also have fresh genetics so that if I decide to line breed them in the future or then breed them back to pure Crackers I ought not have any inbreeding problems for a long time.

Indo's sister always lays a light tan, nearly round, egg.

Its harder to tell the Liege eggs from the Wyandotte eggs. In the clutch of 11 bittes above, I know two are Cracker x American crosses and the rest are fathered by Indo. But I do not know which of those are Indo x Liege crosses vs Indo x layer crosses. And its possible his genes may dominate enough that I won't be able to see the difference as they grow. Therefore those remaining 9 chicks exist simply to be my free range layers and meat birds. The only birds I'll use as Indo x Liege crosses will be those eggs I get from Indo and the Liege hens out of the coop, where they do not share the coop with any other hens that would lay similar eggs.

Good to know. I'm trying to settle on a system that I can keep at least some of my games pure, and also keep the percentage of game blood in my layers consistent

 

[Appalachian homestead]

Here's my blueface trio

 

[Appalachian homestead]

Florida Bullfrog, do your cracker birds have more fire than your "blueface"? I think you said the crackers might be smaller an more athletic but how do they compare temperament wise?

 

[Florida Bullfrog]

Florida Bullfrog, do your cracker birds have more fire than your "blueface"? I think you said the crackers might be smaller an more athletic but how do they compare temperament wise?

The short answer is that the Crackers are just as gamey as any other gamefowl I've had on the farm. In this context, "gamey" means the mature roosters will fight to the death in a free range setting with their natural spurs. I have no idea whether they'd so fight if they were in a cock-pit 100 years ago wearing steel gaffs or whether they'd run at that point.

By now I've had multiple lines of confirmed gamefowl along with my Crackers and I can offer some better observations as to gaminess across the board as defined by mortal aggression.

All of the gamefowl I've had (with one exception I'll mention shortly) start off submissive as stags, and by stags I mean cockerels just past the chick stag at the point some adult coloration is coming in. They do not fight to the death in a free range setting when they're young. They'll run from the mature brood cock if he bothers them. Even my Aseel did this after getting spanked a bit. As to the brood cock, the mature brood cock generally ignores young cockerels and stags until the point the stags start breeding the hens. Then the brood cock will run off the stags when he sees them trying to breed but it does not result in a death-fight.

The death-fights occur between two mature brood cocks when they're over a year old, closer to 1.5 to 2 years old. At that age, I cannot keep but one free range because they will no doubt about it fight to the point of death or until one has lost both eyes. This is true of my Crackers, my American games, my American game bantams, and my Aseel that I had. I can't mix and match any mature brood cock from any of those lines or else one will get killed.

Indo is the exception. he's always been a crazy suicide charger since he's been about 4 months old. He would run if a mature brood cock scraped him good a couple of times but then he'd immediately charge back in to get more a few minutes later. When he started that I had to pull him off of free range until I rotated out the brood cock. Now I believe he'd stand until dead or severely maimed even though his spurs aren't in yet.

I'd say the "BF" I've had are cooler than my Crackers for the same age, and I have not yet had a "BF" rooster make it to maturity to see how much fire it has. They're not a good comparison because I'm not exactly sure what those birds really are given that one lays blue eggs. Jon Jon was close to that age that the fire should have started coming out at the point the eagle got him. Mongo the Indom, my American that is currently on another farm, wasn't all that fiery until his spurs came in. Now he's fierce.

I've seen enough now that I'm skeptical of when gamefowl guys brag about their chicks killing each other. When that happens I don't think its game drive, its some sort of stress from the conditions the chicks are being brooded in. Although I also acknowledge it can be individual personalty independent of a game drive. I don't think game drive kicks in until sexual maturity. I think one doesn't really know what they have in terms of "fire" in their game cock until he's mature near 2 years old.

I also think maturing in isolation changes the mindset of a rooster. A stag that is never whipped by a brood cock doesn't learn to submit in the same way. I think a stag that is tie corded at a few months old and is never placed with a brood cock is going to charge in full blast if turned on another rooster at 9 months in a way the same stag wouldn't if he's spent those months under the domination of a mature brood cock who teaches him his place in the pecking order.

 

[Appalachian homestead]

The short answer is that the Crackers are just as gamey as any other gamefowl I've had on the farm. In this context, "gamey" means the mature roosters will fight to the death in a free range setting with their natural spurs. I have no idea whether they'd so fight if they were in a cock-pit 100 years ago wearing steel gaffs or whether they'd run at that point.

By now I've had multiple lines of confirmed gamefowl along with my Crackers and I can offer some better observations as to gaminess across the board as defined by mortal aggression.

All of the gamefowl I've had (with one exception I'll mention shortly) start off submissive as stags, and by stags I mean cockerels just past the chick stag at the point some adult coloration is coming in. They do not fight to the death in a free range setting when they're young. They'll run from the mature brood cock if he bothers them. Even my Aseel did this after getting spanked a bit. As to the brood cock, the mature brood cock generally ignores young cockerels and stags until the point the stags start breeding the hens. Then the brood cock will run off the stags when he sees them trying to breed but it does not result in a death-fight.

The death-fights occur between two mature brood cocks when they're over a year old, closer to 1.5 to 2 years old. At that age, I cannot keep but one free range because they will no doubt about it fight to the point of death or until one has lost both eyes. This is true of my Crackers, my American games, my American game bantams, and my Aseel that I had. I can't mix and match any mature brood cock from any of those lines or else one will get killed.

Indo is the exception. he's always been a crazy suicide charger since he's been about 4 months old. He would run if a mature brood cock scraped him good a couple of times but then he'd immediately charge back in to get more a few minutes later. When he started that I had to pull him off of free range until I rotated out the brood cock. Now I believe he'd stand until dead or severely maimed even though his spurs aren't in yet.

I'd say the "BF" I've had are cooler than my Crackers for the same age, and I have not yet had a "BF" rooster make it to maturity to see how much fire it has. They're not a good comparison because I'm not exactly sure what those birds really are given that one lays blue eggs. Jon Jon was close to that age that the fire should have started coming out at the point the eagle got him. Mongo the Indom, my American that is currently on another farm, wasn't all that fiery until his spurs came in. Now he's fierce.

I've seen enough now that I'm skeptical of when gamefowl guys brag about their chicks killing each other. When that happens I don't think its game drive, its some sort of stress from the conditions the chicks are being brooded in. Although I also acknowledge it can be individual personalty independent of a game drive. I don't think game drive kicks in until sexual maturity. I think one doesn't really know what they have in terms of "fire" in their game cock until he's mature near 2 years old.

I also think maturing in isolation changes the mindset of a rooster. A stag that is never whipped by a brood cock doesn't learn to submit in the same way. I think a stag that is tie corded at a few months old and is never placed with a brood cock is going to charge in full blast if turned on another rooster at 9 months in a way the same stag wouldn't if he's spent those months under the domination of a mature brood cock who teaches him his place in the pecking order.

Great answer! Thank you.

 

[Appalachian homestead]

I saw your video of culling extra stags with an an airgun. Have you considered caponizing them for better eating?

 

[Florida Bullfrog]

I saw your video of culling extra stags with an an airgun. Have you considered caponizing them for better eating?

I haven’t for the reason I consider them potential brood cocks until they’ve grown enough to evaluate their quality. Once they’re at the point I decide they’re culls, I’m happy just taking them off the yard. I think of their meat like game meat. I don’t expect it to taste like a store bought chicken. I think of them like little wild turkeys.

 

[Florida Bullfrog]

Although in saying that, it would probably be interesting to see if a brood cock treats them the same after caponing them. I suspect not.