Developing the grass in your yard for increasing free ranging nutrition

[HEChicken]

In a note signed by Mr. Ussery, and from the link in my post above: "Please be advised that, despite what is said below about the chances for disease with this system, and despite the fact that I have used it successfully for years, I have recently indeed had problems—including deaths of several chickens—that probably resulted from “limberneck”—that is, botulism poisoning."

Oh yes, I do remember that also. At the time I read it, I mentioned it to DH and he said he thought it was unlikely to be botulism, though I don't remember now what his reasons for that were.

 

[LeslieDJoyce]

Eureka! (though slightly off topic)

I've been moaning about how the science of poultry nutrition is more about economics than about health of the animal (how to provide the least amounts of the expensive ingredients and still get the maximum amount of poultry product) and therefore frustrating to research for those of us concerned about maximizing the health of our flocks by providing "good food" ...

While doing my daily reading of the Feeding Poultry book (http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=coo.31924003011545;view=1up;seq=287) I came across a reference to a report titled Nutrient Requirements of Poultry, so thought I'd google that. I found the 9th Edition of this title (1994) available free online here ... http://www.lamolina.edu.pe/zootecnia/biblioteca2012/NRC Poultry 1994[1].pdf ... it is downloadable and searchable.

This report seems to be pretty thick reading ... but a useful way to answer specific questions about balancing various nutrients. I did a quick search for "calcium," for example. If I'm reading it correctly, it seems to state that calcium supplementation for laying hens can start earlier than POL ... but that if started too early it did increase the occurrences of "stones" in the urinary system of the birds. It also seems to suggest that "larger particle size" of the calcium supplement is beneficial, and that birds are very good at self-regulating their calcium appetite. I take all this to mean that having a feeder of oyster shell available to the flock, even a younger flock, is a sensible way to provide calcium. But of course that's not a recommendation, it's just an example of how I'm accessing and utilizing the information in this publication.

I'm not sure if a more recent version of this report is available free online, but I'll put it on the list of things to ask google.

 

[LeslieDJoyce]

Oh yes, I do remember that also. At the time I read it, I mentioned it to DH and he said he thought it was unlikely to be botulism, though I don't remember now what his reasons for that were.

The rotting carnage maggot farm idea pretty well lost me at the phrase "deaths of several chickens."

After that point the "why" of the result is not so important to me.

 

[Beekissed]

I agree. There are many other ways to provide proteins for the birds than hanging a rotten carcass over their living quarters...what folks fail to realize is that rotting liquid, filled with the bacteria that help in the decaying process, is dripping into the soils there. Those are the very pathogens one doesn't want thriving in their livestock feed, soils, environment and botulism is a very quick bacteria to grow and quick to kill animals that do not have the digestive acids that can handle it.

I found that out this past fall in a roundabout way. I had obtained a pen of mixed breed roosters for the purpose of eating. They were penned for a few weeks and fed some healthy food to clean out their systems. All birds active, bright eyed and healthy. The day I processed, I let two young roosters loose with my free range flock to keep them awhile for the purose of putting on more weight. I didn't really think about the fact that these roosters knew nothing about foraging. When I disposed of the fresh remains of the process over in the woods, I had no fears of my chickens getting into the pile...usually they wait for the tender bits that I throw them during the processing but I've never seen them pick the gut pile as the rest of the tissues are long, stringy and not easy to ingest.

I wasn't thinking about the two inexperienced roosters not knowing how to forage on chicken appropriate foods out on the pasture and later saw them over at the gut pile. I didn't think much about it until that evening when I saw one of them lying down in the yard. I went to examine him and he got up and took a few wobbly steps, but clearly was having some issues. I left him be to see what would transpire...later I found him lying down again and he didn't get up that time, so I set him on his feet and encouraged movement...he was having some problems in his nervous system, couldn't maintain balance and had tremors in his muscles. I saw his crop was a little distended and green blow flies were lighting on his body, I took a whiff and he stank like rotten meat.

That fast...from around noon to 4 pm that evening, he had an infection. The tissue he had picked off that gut pile was fresh, not rotten, but when it hit his crop it immediately started to rot and the bacteria there were sending out toxins. I milked his crop and greenish brown water came out that stank like a rotten carcass. A long piece of windpipe came out and a stringy piece of gut also came out. But it was too late for that bird...he was fevered, couldn't stand any longer and the flies were blowing him like he was already dead. I dispatched him and disposed of him where the other birds would not venture, then moved the gut pile to that location also. The other young rooster may not have gotten gut pieces that hung up in his crop and couldn't advance, as he did just fine, so it wasn't the nature of the meat that caused this infection, but just getting the meat lodged in an airtight, warm place that can breed botulism. His symptoms were much like botulism, so I just assume that is what he had.

That was the very first time I've had a bird get sick while in my care in 37 yrs, so that impressed me greatly as to how dangerous botulism can be for an animal that small. Nothing to play with.

http://www.defra.gov.uk/ahvla-en/files/pub-vet-botulism.pdf

 

[lazy gardener]

Thanks BK. Gruesome reading, but a well placed word to the wise. I have not wrapped my head around the idea of using maggots for protein, but in theory, it makes sense, especially with reduction of fly populations. I have decided that I will no longer spend my money on layer feed, instead opting for multi flock which is higher in protein. I'm not convinced that layer at 15% protein provides good enough nutrition, especially for cold weather. Multi-flock is 22% or higher. Girls now have oyster shell available, and I'll stop composting egg shells! Since switching them over to the MF, they are eating more, and their poo is looking much healthier. Only a fellow chicken keeper appreciates the merit of looking at chicken poop to assess flock health! I'd love to get a starter culture of BSF larvae in the spring. I think I could keep them going in my green house, perhaps even winter them over, dormant in the soil which does not freeze in there if well mulched. Any readers using BSF???

BTW, love your avatar and thought provoking ? at bottom of your posts!

 

[HEChicken]

I found the 9th Edition of this title (1994) available free online here ... http://www.lamolina.edu.pe/zootecnia/biblioteca2012/NRC Poultry 1994[1].pdf ... it is downloadable and searchable.

Great find – thanks for the link!

The rotting carnage maggot farm idea pretty well lost me at the phrase "deaths of several chickens."

After that point the "why" of the result is not so important to me.

The “why” is important to me because if his chickens did NOT die from botulism poisoning, then there is no reason not to continue providing them this valuable source of protein.

...what folks fail to realize is that rotting liquid, filled with the bacteria that help in the decaying process, is dripping into the soils there. Those are the very pathogens one doesn't want thriving in their livestock feed, soils, environment and botulism is a very quick bacteria to grow and quick to kill animals that do not have the digestive acids that can handle it.

In my many experiences doing this, there is NO liquid. Done right, there really shouldn’t be! Perhaps the key is a container that provides adequate ventilation. Also, there is an assumption that this is done “in the animals’ living quarters” but that is also not necessary. I hang the cans far from the coop and the chickens can visit to eat the maggots “at will”. But, when I first started doing this, knowing the maggots feed around the clock, I worried that many of them would drop during the night and burrow into the ground way before they could be eaten, so from the outset, I have always placed a pan immediately below the can, to catch the falling maggots. It has steep enough sides that they can’t crawl out of it so once they drop they are captive until the chickens come to find them. In all the times I have done this, the pan has remained completely dry – no sign of “rotting liquid”. All that is ever in the pan are – very clean looking – maggots. Or, as we like to think of them, “little nuggets of protein”.

Multi-flock is 22% or higher.

You are lucky! Around here, our layer feed is 16% but the multi flock is only 18% - not a huge difference in protein at all.

 

[Beekissed]

I find the layer ration protein more than adequate for producing birds and for low production times in the winter months I'll actually cut the total proteins in the layer ration with a lower protein whole grain like barley. They truly don't need this or that nutrient in greater amounts in order to keep warm, just a balanced diet to provide homeostasis during all times of the year. If I increase any nutrient in the fall/winter it's usually fats and this only a little, by adding some BOSS. They don't need it to get by but I add it for variety, for the fat and for the selenium, which they usually find in the grasses they eat, but due to it being winter grass nutrients are at a low point. Just a little immune system booster that I like to add for the winter months, but not truly necessary if they are eating a balanced ration as the base of their feed.

 

[LindaB220]

"The importance of green food in poultry feeding was first observed because of the response to birds when allowed to range in the spring after being confined during the winter. The resulting sport in egg production was due probably to the warmer weather and exposure to the sun as well as access to green food. Again, it was observed that production was retarded late in the summer and in the fall when the natural supply of green food became low."

That's the opening paragraph to Chapter 8 (Poultry Feeds, Green Feeds and Vegetable Products) of Heuser's book FEEDING POULTRY, available at this link: http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=coo.31924003011545;view=1up;seq=254

Jump to 238 for Chapter 8 ... I'm reading it today.

Leslie, really liking this book. Was able to back up and download single page on my computer. Which downloads it all. ha I especially like the part of pimento peppers giving rich yellow color to shanks, skin and fat. Egg also has higher hatchability. Nice to know

 

[LeslieDJoyce]

Leslie, really liking this book.  Was able to back up and download single page on my computer.  Which downloads it all.  ha  I especially like the part of pimento peppers  giving rich yellow color to shanks, skin and fat.  Egg also has higher hatchability.  Nice to know  

Great tip! I have to try that ... I keep having issues reading it online, so it's been slow.

 

[Lacy Blues]

Leslie, really liking this book. Was able to back up and download single page on my computer. Which downloads it all. ha I especially like the part of pimento peppers giving rich yellow color to shanks, skin and fat. Egg also has higher hatchability. Nice to know

pimiento peppers increase hatchability?

I bookmarked that book yesterday but I haven't had time to read it yet.