Developing the grass in your yard for increasing free ranging nutrition

[Daisy8s]

Here is a link to Ussery being very rude to someone ... http://www.backyardpoultrymag.com/1-4/harvey_ussery/

Reading that the first time actually made me cry. Maybe it is a regionalism thing, or maybe he thinks his "frankness" is edgy and smart like Salatin comes across. But that article is written in a tone I just can't process well.

I don't want to sidetrack this thread. I won't post any more on this...but I just have to say that I read the link through several times and I literally could not find one rude thing he said. It was lengthy, detailed, and full of factual information. In fact, I thought he was quite complimentary to Nan by saying she was doing the right thing in using unprocessed foods to feed her family.

I quote, "There is no more worthy "experiment" she could be doing, in my opinion, to further her health and that of her family."

 

[LeslieDJoyce]

I don't want to sidetrack this thread. I won't post any more on this...but I just have to say that I read the link through several times and I literally could not find one rude thing he said. It was lengthy, detailed, and full of factual information. In fact, I thought he was quite complimentary to Nan by saying she was doing the right thing in using unprocessed foods to feed her family.

I quote, "There is no more worthy "experiment" she could be doing, in my opinion, to further her health and that of her family."

I know ... other people have said the same thing ... some even say it is "Nan" who was the rude one ... but in the context of the article I thought the author was using this "compliment" against "Nan." It made me really sad. I've tried reading it in different mood and had the same gut reaction.

The question came up about why someone might not be a fan ... I'm not a fan because I have found the tone of what I've read to be rude, and also I have found some of the advice he gives to be unsafe. I fully appreciate, however, that the author has LOTS of fans. I presume they like his tone and find his information useful.

Anywho ... this is the view from my chicken coop this morning:



There is a valley between us and that mountain on the horizon, but this morning the valley is full of fog, which is my favorite "weather."

Lucky chickens, huh?

 

[LindaB220]

I know ... other people have said the same thing ... some even say it is "Nan" who was the rude one ... but in the context of the article I thought the author was using this "compliment" against "Nan." It made me really sad. I've tried reading it in different mood and had the same gut reaction.

The question came up about why someone might not be a fan ... I'm not a fan because I have found the tone of what I've read to be rude, and also I have found some of the advice he gives to be unsafe. I fully appreciate, however, that the author has LOTS of fans. I presume they like his tone and find his information useful.

Anywho ... this is the view from my chicken coop this morning:



There is a valley between us and that mountain on the horizon, but this morning the valley is full of fog, which is my favorite "weather."

Lucky chickens, huh?

I know, the first time I read this article I knew nothing about him, but I was offended. Yes, he has a lot of great ideas, but that was down putting at it's best.

 

[Beekissed]

Beautiful view, LJ!!! Yes...lucky chickens indeed!

You're not off base...I get the same tone from him in many of his articles. A very sarcastic, pompous tone that many would think stems from being confident or intelligent~as I've heard said of Salatin..supposedly successful men are allowed to be rude

~but a sensible person knows that truly intelligent, confident people don't feel the need to down grade others to teach a concept.

I remember one MEN article where his garden was on the front cover...beautiful, lush growth with dark soil..just lovely. The article was about how easy it was to have a no-till garden and how much better it was for the soil culture, etc. As I read further he describes the dump truck load of mulch that he brought in to make his garden and I pause and say, "HUH???" Easy..yes! Expensive and impractical~OH, YEAH. City folk might do this but no true homesteader has that kind of money and most people who do no-till gardens do the double dug method of turning the soil with a spading fork, etc. One really cannot call that any level of successful growth caused by a cultured soil if the cultured soil was trucked in from a mulch plant....that's the mulch plant's success, not Harvey's. But he's standing there grinning like he developed that cultured soil all by his lonesome through hard work and dedication to a principle of not disturbing the soil cultures over many seasons.

It seems like every article I read of his has one or two inconsistencies that red flag him as being a homesteader wannabe but not truly what I consider a practical, down to earth homesteader/farmer/poultry guy. I think he is very good at gleaning information and passing it off as his own but that he has very little concept of true, dirty under your nails homesteading and flock keeping...at least, not enough to be writing and teaching about it. But..it makes money and that seems to be the primary goal.

I actually stopped subscribing to my favorite magazine over one article they printed of his...it was a lengthy diatribe of sarcasm over the creation of this world and his Darwinian views on it all, all the while making fun of folks who believed differently. That was the final straw for me.

The Emperor is nekked...those aren't new clothes at all.

 

[Fentress]

Yeah, he certainly makes it all sound so wonderful and easy. I plan to do more research on the till thing, but I can assure you I am not going out to the garden and loosening the soil with a broadfork. There is nothing easy about that! And in his defense he makes it clear that that has to be done. He writes well, the book is comprehensive and for someone starting out, it provides a perspective, a how too manual if you will, that I found valuable during the course of my chicken education.

 

[LeslieDJoyce]

Here are some photos of the two fields we're going to start renovating to add to our chicken pastures ...


This is the lower field that can be added to the main chicken pasture so the "General Population" has more space. You can just make out the existing fence line and coops. I'm standing in the middle of an active farm road on our property, so the road determines the limit of the field on this side ... it's the West side, but I'm facing SE.


We'd keep the left edge of this grassy patch "open" to use as an access road so we can continue to drive supplies right up to the back door of the coop ... but most of this grassy patch could be part of the upper pasture. The back door of the coop is right beside that big green tree in the middle. I'm at the road in this photo, facing nearly due East.


The upper pasture would be expanded in an L-shape ... this shows more of the grassy patch that would be included in the L ... there is a barn to the right (that's what's casting the shadow).


Here is the rest of the upper field. Ahead and to the right you can make out some fencing. The fencing ahead is for the duck area, the fencing to the left has been chicken and turkey area. The upper field will be used for breeders and as a grow-out area/cockerel colony for the birds we hatch here. It would be better if the cockerel colony could be out of sight of the rest of the flock, but this can probably work for a while. Again, facing East.

Currently we only have one breeding trio, so those birds would get one small portion of this field, probably what's already fenced where those deciduous trees are on the left edge (a double row of goldenchain), and the rest of the space could be used for the cockerel colony/grow out area.

And this is the next field I have my eye on ... one more year before we dig those trees, I think. The existing pasture ends at the trees to the right.


If I can get this field, then I can have the woods that edge it (left edge of photo), too. The woods aren't being used for anything and chickens love the woods. That would give us a LOT more room and a LOT more variety of forage.

One consideration is that the hawks LOVE the big trees in the woods to the left and do stalk this field very much. The green trees to the right of this photo seem to confuse the hawks about the existing chicken pasture, and the existing chicken pasture is also an orchard. We will absolutely have to provide tree cover in these open areas.

You can see the fields are rough from having recently dug the crop (nursery stock). We have to wait until digging season is over, then we can prep the field and start planting some new fruit/nut trees/shrubs in it ... then plant seeds at the appropriate time.

You can also see that we do have some freshly-sprouted green stuff even this time of year. But that mostly happens on soil that was tilled late in the summer. Pasture fields tend to be quite brown this time of year here. But we don't get buried in snow for many days in a row ... so the chickens don't get used to that when it happens. Otherwise, the chickens seem to love to be outside unless it is windy and wet. They run outside between showers to hunt for worms.

I'll try to update with plant/lists and progress photos as we go.

 

[Beekissed]

Your land is very lovely and your soil is so dark and rich looking! Looks like you could plant dimes and grow dollars in that field.

You are going to have a huge range area...I'd leave those trees, though. Takes forever to grow a tree and only a few minutes to take one down, so I always go slow in taking out trees....they provide such good habitat for birds and bugs.

Ever thought about getting some hair sheep to help you develop your pasture? Their grazing can encourage growth and their light footsteps prevent damage of the grass crowns through pugging, unlike heavier livestock. They fertilize as they go along, they love browse and will eat some of the noxious weeds that may invade your pasture and they flock well with chickens while also maybe discouraging hawk predation. Painted desert sheep, in particular, may be particularly good at keeping preds away.

And...they are just about the neatest, easiest livestock I've ever kept. Love me some hairsheep!

Can't wait to see those fields fully planted and growing!

 

[LeslieDJoyce]

Your land is very lovely and your soil is so dark and rich looking! Looks like you could plant dimes and grow dollars in that field.

You are going to have a huge range area...I'd leave those trees, though. Takes forever to grow a tree and only a few minutes to take one down, so I always go slow in taking out trees....they provide such good habitat for birds and bugs.

Ever thought about getting some hair sheep to help you develop your pasture? Their grazing can encourage growth and their light footsteps prevent damage of the grass crowns through pugging, unlike heavier livestock. They fertilize as they go along, they love browse and will eat some of the noxious weeds that may invade your pasture and they flock well with chickens while also maybe discouraging hawk predation. Painted desert sheep, in particular, may be particularly good at keeping preds away.

And...they are just about the neatest, easiest livestock I've ever kept. Love me some hairsheep!

Can't wait to see those fields fully planted and growing!

I. Want. Sheep. So. Bad! Of course I'd also have to get the LGD to go with ... I've been planting seeds for this idea for a while now. One of the guys who works here and has been trying to clear out the woods (blackberry vines grow up the trees in the woods) says he wants goats, but other sources suggest pigs and sheep are even better at "woodland maintenance" than goats are. Sheep are easier to keep where you want them.

We used to have sheep and stopped that due to coyotes ... and even though this family has been farming this land since 1910, I don't think anyone here has ever thought to get a LGD. Herd dog, sure. But not a proper guard dog. My current dog isn't much help. Here he is guarding his ... oops, I mean "my" bed. Isn't he vicious? My legs are under there. These two have zero respect for the concept of "personal space." It's a king sized bed ...



I wouldn't take out any big trees ... those are important for providing overhead cover from the hawks. But the little baby peach trees have to go before the chickens will be allowed into that field below the lower field. We do say "money grows on trees" here, though that's just because our main source of income is from nursery stock. If you use the term "income" ironically.

 

[Beekissed]

You could try a burro/donkey as a LG animal and some around here are switching to those due to the wandering habits of the LGD. Plus...the donkeys are just easier to get and are pretty cheap.

The first thing I thought of when I saw how much land you had was that it could be "stacked" to yield more pasture and more livestock per acre and sheep are the easiest to stack....they stay in fences better due to flocking instincts and they are great for pasture, with the hair sheep being good for brush and wood lots due to having a diet similar to goats but still very much sheep-like. Plus..no shearing, good twinning, parasite resistance and good flocking instincts.

I stacked hair sheep and chickens at my last place, which was half orchard and half open pasture...but not much space as I would have liked. It sure did leave my place looking great and I only had to mow twice a year and the sheep were good company for my dogs and chickens. I had a chicken that would ride and sleep on one of my sheep and my dog played tag with them each evening. The best part was that it improved my pasture and the forage opportunities for my chickens in a natural way, while also saving me money on mowing and adding to my freezer meats.

Grass fed only sheep bring a big price around here and the hair sheep a greater price at the sales due to the big ethnic market for them.

That's a sweet pic of those two!!!

 

[LeslieDJoyce]

Here is another little field ... it's where our scion block is and is only 1.5 acres, but bordered on three sides by roads/driveways and slopes up steeply on the fourth side where the farm yard/barns are. This is supposed to be turkey pasture and I think a few sheep would be awesome in with the turkeys. I don't worry about the turkeys so much with coyotes ...

Those are chestnut trees on the left, and down below the little red building used to be the school where my grandfather and two of my aunts attended. It already has enough trees to provide all kinds of interesting cover for birds ... several varieties of apple, pear, Asian Pear, ect. are in the scion block. We already know the birds love the apples and pears, but poultry is supposed to go especially well with chestnut trees because the birds help control an insect pest that infests the ground under the chestnuts. I used to sell chestnuts to the neighborhood fruit stand. All we need is some fencing and a couple of hoop coops and we'd be in "stacked flock" business. Nursery, orchard, poultry, sheep. All on 1.5 acres. Just put in a little mobile home and ...

I had "them" stop spraying this field with RoundUp a while back, so feel it is about the healthiest spot on the farm. I did hear some grumbling about having to dust off the field mower, but this could be used in my argument "for" sheep.






Alternatively the ducks could go over here, or even the cockerel colony.