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http://www.pasreform.com/brochures/28-publications/283-hatchery-of-the-future.html PAGE 7 of 16
@ozexpat @cochins1088 @chicksooner
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I am po'd this stupid video isnt clear at all! What is going on! I have uploaded plenty of candles and never had this issue until recently, they are clear on my laptop and my cell, and they are max on youtube!
NOTICE first egg and very last egg I candle are NORMAL day 15 White faced eggs, also note that the veining (chorio-allantoic membrane) reaches the bottom of the egg and has great veining!
Then I candle all those silkie duck eggs! STUNNING if you ask me! Well it is clear video to me on my laptop and in person! and NOTE MY QUOTE ABOVE!
So my guess is number 8 hatches! and possibly #3, there are two eggs I missed, I will do them later.
The silkie duck are on day 18
Empty shells - a valuable source of information
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Day 14 silky duck weigh in all look fantastic at candle,
I wish I could upload to youtube and keep the quality of the film, you cant even see the great veining in it after upload!
Does anyone have another site I can use to get better uploads of videos?
these are all over the place! ughhhh I have about until day 18-19 to get them to 14-17% (that's 4-5 days)
#5 & #13 lost 15.16% & 16.84%(I will have to move them to hatcher and up humidity for them earlier (they are now on WATCH)
#2, 6 7 8 11 & 18 are only in the 10% range so these guys I will dip more often each day in hopes to keep going. 6 & 7 being the ones at lowest lost point. (I may sand these a tad again)
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INFO for my NOTES:
If the humidity is too low and the chick risks dehydration, it can swallow amniotic fluid and any remaining albumin to compensate for excessive moisture loss. However, persistent or excessive low humidity in late incubation can lead to dehydration and kidney failure due to decreased perfusion of the kidneys with blood. Low humidity in the first third of incubation interferes with the mobilization of calcium from the egg shell to form the growing chick’s skeleton and can lead to a stunted embryo. On the other hand, increased humidity levels during incubation mean that insufficient moisture is lost from the egg.
Various techniques have been described to control weight loss such as sanding eggs (to decrease thickness and increase weight loss), creating holes (that can then be closed again with tape), and covering a small part of the shell with paraffin. A technique is described where dehydrated eggs are placed in zip-lock bags with cotton balls dipped in sterile water. When large numbers of eggs are involved, running two or three incubators at different humilities to accommodate normal, dehydrated and wet eggs becomes essential to maximize hatchability.
http://www.melbournebirdvet.com/eggs.aspx
. Genetic problems
This seems to be much less of a problem in aviculture than in domestic species such as poultry. Lethal genes can be carried recessively. Recessive (and often harmful) genes are much more likely to be exposed through inbreeding.
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At days 11 - 12 of incubation, the chorio-allantoic membrane reaches the sharp end of the egg. If the albumen sac is too large due to insufficient weight loss, this membrane cannot reach the sharp end and will not be closed. Insufficent weight loss is typically caused either by too low a temperature or over high humidity. Observe whether or not the chorio-allantoic membrane is closed by looking inside the bottom part of the empty shells. If there was overheating during the last days in the setter or in the hatcher, excessively thick and clearly visible blood vessels will be observed.
Navel strings
1. high humidity in the hatcher. The
umbilical blood vessel does not dry
down and fall off normally
1. Review hatcher humidity profiles
Early embryo deaths may be associated with a deficiency of vitamin A (failure to develop circulatory system), vitamin E (circulatory failure), biotin, niacin, pantothenic acid, copper, selenium or thiamin. Excess boron or molybdenum could increase the proportion of early deaths.
Mid-term embryo deaths have been associated with a deficiency of vitamin B12, riboflavin, phosphorus and zinc.
Mid to late deaths have been associated with a deficiency of vitamin B12, niacin, pyridoxine, pantothenic acid and riboflavin
Late embryo deaths have been associated with deficiencies of vitamin B12, vitamin D, vitamin E, vitamin K, pantothenic acid, riboflavin, folic acid, biotin, calcium, manganese, magnesium, phosphorus, zinc, iodine and thiamin. Excess selenium could increase the proportion of late deaths.
Excess iodine and vitamin D can cause high embryo losses.
Drug formulary http://avianmedicine.net/content/uploads/2013/03/18.pdf
Veterinary Drugs & Dosages Table Birds http://www.irishwildlifematters.ie/animals/bird-drugs.html#GO-ANTIBIOTICS
NEW UPDATED POULTRY PEDIA MED CHARTS W DOSAGE https://sites.google.com/a/poultrypedia.com/poultrypedia/medicine-chart
UPDATED the Ducking Care page https://www.backyardchickens.com/a/duckling-care-brooder-ideas
DUCK HEALTH LINKS
Mixing Medicine for Small Flocks of Ducks and Geese
http://www.liveducks.com/health.html
Avian Diseases: Fungal, Nutritional, Tumors, Parasites & Misc.
Acute Aspergillosis in Mallards|PDF
List of Waterfowl Diseases
Duck Health Care
BUMBLEFOOT & Treatment
Waterfowl Diseases: Coping with duck ailments
DUCK RESCUE NETWORK tons of info!
INDIAN RUNNER DUCK ASSOCIATION
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Sally Sunshine
Today at 6:38 am
Hearsay will kill your hatch every time, just saying....
All the answers I have for you below and the links for the abstracts and studies are in the article I wrote https://www.backyardchickens.com/a/hatching-eggs-101 and most I have had to research out of my own mistakes. It takes a bit to have a good eye for air cells, it takes time to understand the hatching process, key are the following.....
Ventilation see suggestions in that section
Turning 45 degree no less and many times a day and three is minimum and you will see tons of malpositions with just three times. I havent had but two since I use the cabinet incubator, amazingly I proved it to myself turn more than three times!
Temps have to be spot on, Calibration is KEY! Shuffle eggs around throughout incubation because even the best incubators have warm and cold spots. NEVER NEVER during the first 18 days run below 99.5 NEVER!
Humidity NOT A SET NUMBER NEVER EVER NEVER! its all about the weight loss and size of air cell in the egg!
First things first,
I always request how I want my eggs collected, stored, shipped, SEE Ozexpats letter to egg shippers in the article. THIS IS SO IMPORTANT I COULD SCREAM IT!
See question 3 for best timeframe/egg age to set young flocks eggs
I only settle eggs for 12-16 hours even rolling air cell eggs
When set I treat EVERY EGG DIFFERENTLY that is shipped depending on its air cell condition (see the Shipped eggs section in the article for details)
Any eggs that I plan to store longer than 7 days I put into a cool location, LITTLE END UP and in a STYROFOAM egg carton closed and NO turning during storage, just keep humidity in the room as close to 70 as you can keep it, I hang a damp towel in one of our garage closets which is cool in the winter, in the summer they will move to another closet.
1. What temp do you incubate at in your coolerbator? I run 100-100.5 in my cabinet cooler CALIBRATION IS KEY for both hygros and thermos, it is worse to run at 99 than it is to run at 101 and I seen it over and over, HOWEVER I have also seen bloody open navels with high temps over 101 that early hatch day 19-20.
CALIBRATION CALIBRATION CALIBRATION!
2. What temp do you hatch at in your hatchers? I hatch in the reg coolers, I move them from the cabinet cooler bator about day 16-17 and keep reg coolerbators at 99.5 running and day 18 I add a little warm water estimate 55-60% humidity and then I candle often day 18-19 looking for internals when I see first internals I drop to 98- 98.5 and up humidity to about 70-72% (this may sound strange but my window on my coolerbators tell me when I have the right humidity, two of the corners of plexi will show just a hint of condensation. And then when they start to hatch I get just a bit more)
Researchers have found that lowering temperatures will prolong incubation,
HOWEVER it is favourable to do so at the end of incubation.
Day 19 & 20 Temp Min 98.0 Max 98.5
Day 21 Temp Min 97 Max 98.0
for more information please refer here:
http://www.hubbardbreeders.com/managementguides/Incubation guide (english).pdf
3. What do you feel the perfect humidity is for the first 18 days? There is no set number for humidity EVER, you need to judge with what eggs your loading up, example shipped eggs can be up to 10-14 days old until you get them and air cells are huge which means there was already water/weight loss, you will need more humidity for them, fresh eggs from young flock are best held for 7 days before setting, because they have little to no air cell and its simply proven that they will hatch better aged and their internal contents again are different from an old hens eggs.
Do you understand what a chicken "clutch" is? its a natures way of naturally aging the eggs so the hen can sit on them and hatch in a timely manner. Her day 1 of clutch egg will be totally different inside structure than day 5-7 egg. It very interesting to study how all that works, it gives you much better understanding for incubating. Again I threw tons of links in the article for reference materials for everyone who wants to learn and understand more, explore the articles links!
I highly suggest weighing of eggs and NOT judging air cells for weight loss for beginners, however even this you need to keep in mind age of the eggs and what the air cells look like when you get them. It takes alot of practice and time to get a "FEEL" or "EYE" for air cells.
Also there are in fact breed differences and weight loss, I wouldn't let my serama go with low humidity during incubation because they don't have much weight to loose and in the end if you dry incubate they simply die in there of either adhesion or just lack of liquids.
4. What do you feel the perfect humidity is in lock-down? Lockdown again depends on the weight loss, if I screwed up and air cells look too big I use more humidity. When "draw down" and internal pipping occurs and the air cells look huge I will up the humidity to 70- 74 and I hatch so many at this point my humidity goes to lower 90's easily with that many wet chicks hatching at the same time. VENTILATION at the end is key! never close vents to adjust humidity EVER
5. Out of 26 eggs, 3 were infert, 2 had cells started but quit, 18 were fully developed dead chicks, and 3 hatched. I did eggtopsies and found all the dead chicks in the same condition. There was a good air cell, but the chicks were "butt up" with their beaks tucked under a wing (head toward the narrow end of the egg).There were no internal pips in any of these. If I understand what I read properly, it sounds like the chicks got too big too soon and couldn't flip in the egg to pip at the top. Caused by too high of humidity? Does any of that make sense? Were the chicks in fact large? a big wet chick sorta looks big and somewhat mushy, you can see more skin on their backs at hatch and less feathering or short feathering. How much water or liquids were inside with the chicks on breakout analysis? Have you found the WHAT WENT WRONG section and dove into the links to read and look at images to compare your hatch break out with? is this what you feel by looking at them happened? KEEP IN MIND WHAT I STATED ABOUT LOW TEMPS! I would run a bator at 101 long before I chose to go to 99 during the first 18 days! The worst thing you can do is run low temps, next is high humidity and I can go on and on...
6. It is holding temperatures within +/- 0.2 degrees. I just love it for that.....but I can't seem to get the humidity above 60%. Unless what you tell me is different, I think that 60% is high enough, but I sure hope so...... This is why I wanted to stick with a cooler, they hold that humidity very well as they are not of material like wood that sucks the humidity up. ARE you sure your spot on temps all over that bator, back forth up and down? ARE YOU SURE your getting the right humidity reading? show me what your doing to bring humidity up please, remember surface area is what raises humidity NOT DEPTH.
This coming Saturday, I will be putting 80 eggs in the new cabinet incubator I just built: fresh, shipped ? breeds?
Also would like your permission to move this onto the diary incubation thread as it can help others at some point, or you can copy paste it all over and I will see it and respond on that thread.
This cracked me up again, silly Ren
I need a DOULA! Emotional support, or else a stiff drink! Why am I getting so panicky over these! good Grief I am not sure of my abilities on these, I feel like I am taking a exam!!!!
They are drawing down its day 20 lines are day 7 & 14 and just now air cell line, ps the images make it appear larger than air cell is for some reason!
Three are like this now and one other is starting to move down fast!
ps air cells appear larger in the images than they really are, probably because the other end of the egg is hidden or at angle.
Not gonna lock down yet! I see alot of fluid in them! ughhhh
http://www.britishcallduckclub.org.uk/Breedingcallducks.html
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INTERNAL PIP 1 @ 2:00 PM! Nothing like seeing that curved shadow in the egg!!!!
Upped humidity to 70% as air cells look big now, dropped temp to 99one step closer for one egg,
ughhhh this is gonna be a long three or maybe four next days!
Four eggs still remain in the cabinet, all are still showing movement, and noted that two others began to FINALLY draw down below that day 18 pencil line this afternoon.... the other two only show slight decrease in weight loss.
MUSCOVY DUCK EGGS
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This workes awesome! I just put a rubber band around it!~~Originally Posted by Sally Sunshine View Post OHHH someone please help me!! I cant think and figure this out!!! http://www.journalijdr.com/sites/default/files/Download 1412.pdf
Cuticle procedure for safe removal Washing eggs with 2500 ppm sodium hypochlorite solution at 104 degrees F for 5 minutes.
how much is 2500 ppm and how on earth do I make this solution!!!!
I even used this link and dont get it!!
http://www.cleavebooks.co.uk/scol/ccconc.htm
Not all bleach is created equal.....
First you have to read the label to find the % Sodium Hypochlorite (SH) ...... I just read up on "Clorox" brand products.... They appear to make several concentrations ranging from 2.75% to possibly 8% Sodium Hypochlorite.....
Since we are looking for a 2500 Ppm final concentration of SH, we need to figure the Ppm in the store bought container...
Start with the 6% bleach solution most of us use in cleaning etc.....
6% is 0.06 x 1,000,000 (one million) = 60,000 parts of SH in one million.... or 60,000 PPM SH in "Clorox" ...
To calculate the 2,500 Ppm solution ....
60,000 Ppm / (unknown) = 2,500 Ppm or... (unknown) = 2,500 Ppm / 60,000 Ppm ... UNKNOWN = 24 ......
So we have to dilute our original 6% "Clorox" ... 24 times to get 2,500 Ppm final solution
Since there are 16 fluid ounces in a pint... lets use 1 1/2 pints = 24 ounces...
Add one ounce of "Clorox" to that 1 1/2 pint (24 ounces) to get to our 2500 Ppm Sodium Hypochlorite Sanitizing Solution
This type of stuff can be confusing at best.... I hope this helps..... Dave
Testing ONE TWO--- Hey Mike, this thing on?
HANDS FREE LOVE THIS!! It came this morning and I just candled three trays of eggs!!!
LOVE I CAN keep eggs upright!
All I need is to find a rubber tip for the end of my light and I am good!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/380872348924?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
I thawed out a booboo pack and folded it in half and its working great for internal temps
As requested here are some pics of how I adapted for candling the 3000 lumen flashlight that Sally Sunshine recommended. It is a very easy task if a person can find the 1 1/4" foam pipe insulation but since all I had available to me was the 1" foam pipe insulation, I cut an extra piece to fill the exposed gap and used electrical tape to tape the foam together. By using a little compression it made the foam fit very tightly but can still be pulled off of the flashlight without untaping it. Not very fancy, but total time involved was less than 5 minutes.
I will explain my thought process on shipped eggs...... and how I order them, if someone doesnt like that I ask how I want them to be collected and shipped a certain way, I dont want to buy from them!
This is a great tool to use, oz wrote it but its word file and you can edit or copy paste from it when ordering eggs!
An open letter to egg shippers.doc 27k .doc file
Its NOT all about the USPS, they are a huge factor, but we can do a few things to get our hatch rates up, I will continue to tell people to take a 4-6 day old egg (like that dates shipped to you) and shake it and see how hard it is to loosen that air cell. Go ahead and try it on a just layed one too! Tape the kids trying it! That would be a fun video!
Research good quality hatching eggs as close to your state as possible, I refuse to pay for anything further than two states away, and if I want something bad enough its safer to ship chicks than eggs, depending on weather.
Ask for eggs to ship out NO OLDER than three days, two is best but three isnt too bad.
Ask for the eggs to NOT be washed.
Ask for the eggs to be bubblewrapped, placed air cell up, padded well so they cannot move at all, and DOUBLE BOXED! specifically ask for NO SHOEBOXED eggs. Its worth paying more for shipping to be sure that outer box has enough padding to hold the inner box safely.
As far as what is written on the outer box...
I have no clue what is right or wrong! I personally write Live embryos, Do Not Xray, Fragile and arrows up on the box.
HOWEVER, some say......Write FRAGILE and some say DONT write fragile on the box
Write MAPLE SYRUP in GLASS JARS FRAGILE on the box, (if this breaks in the machines or anywhere the workers have to clean it up, makes sense, also suggested that it screws up their machinery in some way, again who knows!)
DO NOT XRAY
Live Embryos
Arrows for up
ALWAYS NOTE the size of the air cell, be it a dime, quarter size or half dollar. I posted a egg grading image via air cells some time ago. This is a GREAT GREAT indication of how old those eggs are! If you need to familiarize yourself with age of eggs via air cell, start dating your own eggs and keep them on the counter not in the fridge for two weeks.
JUDGING-INTERIOR-EGG-QUALITY-BY-CANDLING
http://www.docstoc.com/docs/124294895/JUDGING-INTERIOR-EGG-QUALITY-BY-CANDLING_1_
And always settle eggs 12-24 hours at room temp before setting them and treat all eggs differently as their air cell presents to you.... see shipped egg section hatching 101 article.
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