Diary & Notes ~ Air Cell Detatched SHIPPED Chicken Eggs for incubation and hatching

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it is basically an attempt to log illness. if you are shipping hatching eggs/ chicks, you should be tested and monitored. to someone like me, it shows that you care enough to have your flock tested for some forms of contagous illness.

ok let me explain this another way. Sally's brahmas are pretty rare, her white faced spanish are as good as i have ever seen - although i havent seen many; and the frizzles are beautiful. i would love to buy chicks or eggs from Sally. im not truly commercial, but i do breed and sell chickens, and have several thousand dollars in my flock. before i can buy eggs/chicks/chickens from anyone, i have to weigh in the factors of importing illness to my other chickens. with her having a NPIP membership, i know what she has tested clean for. that is a big relief and usually a determining factor on me buying from anyone. she can also ship legally, no worries of confiscated eggs; and a larger buyer market.

i myself am a member in Ohio. since i have become a member, i have not been able to make enough eggs/chicks for my market.

I too have a large investment in my birds, but I also have a degree in microbiology and I know for certain that there are only so many precautions that you can take. Microbes are going to find their way into your flock no matter what you do. To expect to be able to eradicate viral and bacterial infectious agents from poultry kind is like thinking that the CDC could actually eradicate the flu virus. Its a fantasy that health organizations feed the public to keep us from panicking. Anthropologically speaking, bacteria and viruses are our evolutionary bedmates: we couldn't have made it without them.

I deal a lot with this with my ecology friends. Perfect example: Purple loosestrife. When you walk into a field which contains purple loosestrife, do you feel like there is a lack of biodiversity? No, of course not. Now, when you walk up to a forest covered with kudzu (because you certainly cant walk INTO one), you definitely notice a loss of biodiversity. You have got to fight the good fight. And you've got to fight it in such a way as to keep your sanity.

I am NPIP approved, thank you very much, and when my NPIP worker was leaving (and I value his viewpoint because this is a person who sees and deals with infectious diseases every day), he actually told me not to worry about exposure to ILT at poultry shows because once the virus is bottled up inside a chicken, it is passed on in a much milder form than it can be picked up from the wild (and this is true for a lot of viruses) and mortality is much lower, plus it gives your chickens immunity. And until the recombinant vaccine is made more readily available, this is the best we have.

What I am trying to get at is that I want to keep my chickens healthy, but I also have a healthy understanding of evolution and I know that there is no overhead netting that is going to stop a heron or a loon or an osprey from flying overhead and pooping some unknown agent into my pen. Or that is going to stop an earthworm or a cockroach from eating said poop and then making its way into my quardonned-off pen and allowing one of my chickens to eat it. There is also no way (while keeping your sanity) to keep a fox or an opossum or a freakin' dingo from taking a crap next to one of my pens right before it rains and then the rain washing whatever infectious agent said canine was carrying, right into my pen where my chickens can drink from a puddle that once was fox poo.

Basically, I get tested, I bleach my waterers and feeders (no stronger than 10%), I only use antibiotics and anthelmintics when absolutely necessary, I treat my pond for bacteria and parasites, I shake my fist at the wading birds when they're in my yard and I QUARANTINE ALL NEW BIRDS FOR AT LEAST 90 DAYS. Plus, I have a full working knowledge of and am set up for level 2 safety procedures for JIC we have an outbreak. I observe my birds closely and I know the normal demeanor, carriage and overall look of each one (I have over 100 and that's where an eidetic memory comes in handy) and I quarantine at the first sign of illness. I also make it a habit of feeding my youngest birds first, then my breeders, then my free range flock and I lysol my shoes after I am done, this is a really easy way of containing the spread of even something as simple as coccidia to your most fragile and/or important birds.

I don't mean to belittle your biosecurity practices or to dissuade you from them, you've got to find your happy place on your own. I'm just thankful that I live in a state which has a more realistic view of backyard poultry safety and the spread of infectious agents. Its like the Buddha said: It is not practical for everyone to follow the One True Path, out of necessity we all make our own path to the best of our means. (I didn't add quotes because I'm not sure that he put it exactly that way; I'm forced to paraphrase, but you get my gist).
 
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I too have a large investment in my birds, but I also have a degree in microbiology and I know for certain that there are only so many precautions that you can take. Microbes are going to find their way into your flock no matter what you do. To expect to be able to eradicate viral and bacterial infectious agents from poultry kind is like thinking that the CDC could actually eradicate the flu virus. Its a fantasy that health organizations feed the public to keep us from panicking. Anthropologically speaking, bacteria and viruses are our evolutionary bedmates: we couldn't have made it without them.

I deal a lot with this with my ecology friends. Perfect example: Purple loosestrife. When you walk into a field which contains purple loosestrife, do you feel like there is a lack of biodiversity? No, of course not. Now, when you walk up to a forest covered with kudzu (because you certainly cant walk INTO one), you definitely notice a loss of biodiversity. You have got to fight the good fight. And you've got to fight it in such a way as to keep your sanity.

I am NPIP approved, thank you very much, and when my NPIP worker was leaving (and I value his viewpoint because this is a person who sees and deals with infectious diseases every day), he actually told me not to worry about exposure to ILT at poultry shows because once the virus is bottled up inside a chicken, it is passed on in a much milder form than it can be picked up from the wild (and this is true for a lot of viruses) and mortality is much lower, plus it gives your chickens immunity. And until the recombinant vaccine is made more readily available, this is the best we have.

What I am trying to get at is that I want to keep my chickens healthy, but I also have a healthy understanding of evolution and I know that there is no overhead netting that is going to stop a heron or a loon or an osprey from flying overhead and pooping some unknown agent into my pen. Or that is going to stop an earthworm or a cockroach from eating said poop and then making its way into my quardonned-off pen and allowing one of my chickens to eat it. There is also no way (while keeping your sanity) to keep a fox or an opossum or a freakin' dingo from taking a crap next to one of my pens right before it rains and then the rain washing whatever infectious agent said canine was carrying, right into my pen where my chickens can drink from a puddle that once was fox poo.

Basically, I get tested, I bleach my waterers and feeders (no stronger than 10%), I only use antibiotics and anthelmintics when absolutely necessary, I treat my pond for bacteria and parasites, I shake my fist at the wading birds when they're in my yard and I QUARANTINE ALL NEW BIRDS FOR AT LEAST 90 DAYS. Plus, I have a full working knowledge of and am set up for level 2 safety procedures for JIC we have an outbreak. I observe my birds closely and I know the normal demeanor, carriage and overall look of each one (I have over 100 and that's where an eidetic memory comes in handy) and I quarantine at the first sign of illness. I also make it a habit of feeding my youngest birds first, then my breeders, then my free range flock and I lysol my shoes after I am done, this is a really easy way of containing the spread of even something as simple as coccidia to your most fragile and/or important birds.

I don't mean to belittle your biosecurity practices or to dissuade you from them, you've got to find your happy place on your own. I'm just thankful that I live in a state which has a more realistic view of backyard poultry safety and the spread of infectious agents. Its like the Buddha said: It is not practical for everyone to follow the One True Path, out of necessity we all make our own path to the best of our means. (I didn't add quotes because I'm not sure that he put it exactly that way; I'm forced to paraphrase, but you get my gist).

i think you took that the wrong way. im more like you than you know LOL. because i make part of my living selling chicks, i have to be very careful. i dont want to transmit disease to anyone, so i have to watch what gets brought in.
when someone asks me about vaccinating chicks, i recommend it. i think everyone should have a disease resistant flock for all common illnesses. if everyone vaccinated their chickens like we do humans, several diseases could be pretty much forgotten about.
this is where i start fighting the issue of having to appeal to everyone. i would love to vaccinate my flock, and vaccinate all chicks; but some would become potential carriers. if everyone else had a disease resistant flock disease resistance would not be a issue. It makes me sick to have had to cull some chickens ive culled for the reasons ive culled. but to refill my breeder cages to the point of where i am now would cost around $30,000. - that is just a guess, i have know idea of how much money i actually have in my flock.
some crazy redneck once said "to make a little money in chickens, you have to spend alot of money!" its true, to keep this business growing like it needed to - we have spent our retirements, and any other money we can come up with. i started with nothing, and in 5 or so years built all these coops and barns. im going to agree with that redneck 100%, and i might add "you will have to love what your doing."

now on chicks im keeping for me, i do things a bit differently. once they are in by themselves, and still on medicated feed - i throw some dirt from my adults in with them. usually nothing happens, if for some reason several are lost - i have the vet do tests to see what the illness is. i am judicial about quarantining, for the most part once they are adults all breeds/colors are kept separately. as adults my largest setups are for no more than 10 chickens, they will end up selected/culled down to 3.

you mentioned having well over 100 birds, this year alone i have sold thousands of chicks and hundreds of all stages in between. ive kept a couple hundred for myself for replacements, or to add to some numbers for next year. my existing flock as it stands right now is about 600. im still working on hatching some breeds for myself. just basic care during these colder months takes about 10 hours a day (5 from me, 5 from DW). for the most part i know each bird, and who its parents are. i know its personality, its not handled daily, but we do handle each bird each week. we dont use automatic waters for the most part (though i am thinking about adding them in). we feed and water each group of chickens, do a quick inspection and move on. later in the day we feed and water again, with the same quick inspection. in the warmer months we will move and switch out 30 or so groups of chickens so they get grazing time every few days.

for me, until we change things - biosecurity is a must - its also a pain in the , umm well you know.
 
Time for some cute stuff (7/8 hatched):



White broody got up and is trying to steal chicks, so it looks like I'll have to put her eggs in the incubator with the malpositioned air cell one.
funny with rusty gold momma!!! Little penguins are not they!!! Love them!
 
I'm just thankful that I live in a state which has a more realistic view of backyard poultry safety and the spread of infectious agents.
I agree, we are already willing to draw blood every 90 days and keep closed flock! I am phsyco clean with my birds and their bonanza too! I wish as a backyard flock owner I could have that huge pole barn with concrete breeding pens and complete control, but I do not.
 
Quote: i dont have all of that myself, my buildings are gravel floors. i did build a pole barn that i put way to much money into. if i had it to do all over again things would be alot different - and with the move im going to make some changes the best i can.

im also thinking when i move that i am going to build several small coops - 4x4 feet square with (2) 8x8 runs, so i can switch back and forth for best grass. with sawmill lumber and poultry netting they can be put together for about $200 each.

as a whole, we chicken owners need to come together on all of this. in my opinion, we should all realize that there are going to be diseases carried into our flock - no matter what we do. as a group i feel we should all pick the most common issues and vaccinate for them, then concentrate more on nutrition. a bird fed proper nutrition has by far less chances of succumbing to a serious illness. i think all states should have the same "realistic" regulations too. the only way to eliminate illness is to eliminate all carriers, including wild. im pretty sure we will never catch and test every wild bird.

in a way im sorry i talked you back into this Sally, i didnt realize PA was going to be so hard on you. Ohio is so simple, i dont realize why its all so different.
 
Brian, it needed done, I wanted to do it but knew about all this, my intentions are to work through all of it and attempt to help others that wish to do the same. And I will have my CPT license so I can help in more than just paperwork and inspections.


Hear that Wingstone? When your ready you know where to find me even if its building them breeding pens!
 
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