difference between RIR and production Red?

[nature nut]

I realize that a production red is a RIR but that they are in some way different. Is it that they do not meet the standard set for RIRs? I've read posts where people are able to pick out a production red from a standard red and I've been trying to figure out what it is that gives them away? What can you look for in your chicken to decide which it is? Just curious because I have one RIR from a hatchery and one from a breeder.

 

[catdaddyfro]

Most of the RIRs that are sold at hatcheries are Prodution reds or what some people call hatchery reds. One way to tell the difference is they are not as dark in color as RIReds. They're more of dull uneven mixed reds. The standard color for RIReds is a real rich, deep, shiney Mahogany almost looks black in some light or photos. The body size is more compact and somewhat lighter in weight on PReds. Chris09 posted this website. for some good info on RIReds:

http://bloslspoultryfarm.tripo.com/index.html
If I got it wrong here goto feathersite, blosls site is on the RIRed page there.

 

[Mahonri]

Aren't Production Reds a cross between NH and RIR?

 

[catdaddyfro]

Yes I've read that they do that alot at hatcheries. It's said to give them a hybrid vigor like the sex-link crosses. But I don't now if they use their hatchery reds or standard RIReds for the cross, maybe someone out there can explain. I do know this when you rebreed them I've ended up with all different colored reds. Some dark like PReds and some light like NHs most are on the light side more than dark. Maybe we can get the Geneticist out there in on it.

 

[Chris09]

A Production Red are from the breeding of Rhode Island Reds and a Leghorn..
Production Red can be lighter red than a RIR.
For the most part you could say that the Production Red is just a RIR with more Leghorn added in becouse the RIR originated from crossing the Red Malay Game, LEGHORN, Asiatic native stock..
Here is the link that catdaddyfro was trying to post.. http://bloslspoutlryfarm.tripod.com/id29.html
(catdaddyfro: your link didnt have the id29 in it [ com/id29.html ] )


Chris

 

[catdaddyfro]

Yeah, Chris09 thanks for posting the right web address. I'm still going to find where I read about the RIRed x NH cross and its not the only one I've read about hatcheries doing this. I've had them and I've bred them and it takes some select breeding to get the lighter New Hampshire colors out of them most of the lighter ones are roos, or it maybe because I end up with about 65 to 70% males when I hatch. I don' t know but I think its more than a little leghorn blood way back when. The ones the hatcheries sell would be all different colored reds and I don't see this they're darker but not RIRed dark. I finaly got one hen I could get dark chicks out of so hatched me out 5pullets and a Roo and this spring I'm going to breed them and see what happens then. I can't aford the heritage breeds right now. I just want some all dark stock, they are just for layers anyway, but some of my peeps that buy chicks and pullets from me want RIRed looking chickens and this is about the only way I can do this without spending a fortune. I'm trying to make a small fortune to start me a breeder stock. I'm leaning towards the Delaware. Boy that Delaware thread on Breeds, Genetics, and Showing is really something.I'm loving it.

 

[nature nut]

Thanks for the link. It was a good one. I just started wondering about the older RIR because after she molted this time 3 white feathers appeared on her instead of being the rich dark red color.

 

[catdaddyfro]

On another thread PotterWatch said the same thing Mahori asked previously.

Potterwatch Quote: They could be a RIRxNH which would basically be a production red.

Mahori asked earlier: Aren't production reds a cross between NHx RIR?

PotterWatch has a good point there. Finally someone has seen what I've been trying to say.

I say a Rhode Island Red is a Breed.

A New Hampshire is a Breed.

And a "production red" or what most people call a "hatchery red" is a Hybrid of the two. The bird the hatcheries are selling as a Rhode Island Red-production strain are crossbreeds. That's why they say not for show almost in every hatchery ad you read.

I read the bloslsfarms site artical posted previously. It has some great information in it. But, the hatcherries have their own " made-up" types of "production reds". If you look on their ads at the Class for RIReds most will say ( Production) not American, or ect... Just the same for Sex-links, because they are a hybrid of two different breeds. That's the info I've gathered so far.

I know I'm rambling on but what I'm trying to say is that "production reds" are not "typical" to RIR's or New Hampshires. They are colored all wrong, espcially if you rebreed them, they don't rebreed true just like sex-links. And they are smaller in body size than RIReds or New Hampshires. Its not because of Leghorn blood in the mix either. Gold sex-links, Red sex-links, and Black sex-links are all smaller in weight than their parent stock. They aren't crossed up whith Leghorn. Its because they are hybrids and they are bred specifically for egg production, feed conversion, and hybrid vigor.

So, now nature nut I'll give you my answer.

Rhode Island Red is an old original breed bred up by our forefathers. A "foundation" American breed.

Production Reds "hatchery type" are a crossbreed or "hybrid" bred up for laying eggs and they do a fine job of it.

That's my story. Now its somebody elses turn. I got a headache

 

[Goose and Fig]

I think the term "production red" is over-used, and I may be guilty of that as well. What I do know is that I got my first RIRs from a hatchery. They were dark mahogany, big beautiful birds, and they bred true.
However- they never did go broody, and were egg-laying machines. These traits are over-emphasized by hatcheries, and less focused on by serious red breeders.(or so I'd assume)

I ended up selling them to focus on other breeds, and because the roo was a little demon.

 

[WalkingWolf]

Quote:
I gotta agree, in fact I have come to the conclusion there is no such thing as a RIR unless it has a blue ribbon hanging on it. My hatchery PR(RIR) look identical to the pics of show winning birds, except for the missing feathers from roos mating. BUT the SQ RIR eggs that I hatched are clearly NHR or PR. They are mixed shades and orange instead of chocolate brown/red like the hatchery birds. BTW the hatchery that I got them from sells or claims to sell; RIR, NHR, and PR. So what I gather from postings is that it is not possible for them to be selling RIR.

I have the mindset that if you are happy with your birds don't worry about what others say, and enjoy them. If your buying RIR for show, get a contract in writing, because most likely your still getting PR.