Differences EE, Ameraucana, & Araucana * Pls post pics*

[HaikuHeritageFarm]

I still just don't understand how a purebred Ameraucana with a fault or a sport color is suddenly an Easter Egger, which I thought was a term reserved for mutts or birds with questionable heritage....If two "purebred" Ameraucanas throw non-standard colors, aren't they failing to breed true and shouldn't they also be called Easter Eggers?

Regardless, I would love some purebred Ameraucanas but but have terrible luck with hatching eggs and no need for 25+, so I'm going to be joining the party with some EE's from Ideal this spring. Woohoo! I actually think I will enjoy the variety more than the standardized colors. Should be fun!

 

[Illia]

I very rarely see people cross two Ameraucana colors to make an unrecognized color, and otherwise you must consider that Splash and Lavender are unrecognized, yet we still cal them Ameraucanas. It is all about knowing based on characteristics. . . EE's are known for having or not having traits that with any other breed people would automatically say makes it not the breed, yet just because so many people were brought up with EE's then were told they weren't Ameraucanas, they get upset?

If someone was selling white birds with pink shanks, and called them Leghorns. . . One could easily say they aren't Leghorns.

If someone was selling "Wheaten" La Fleche, yet they don't come in that color, one could easily question the seller as to what they really have.

Same goes for Ameraucanas. Non-slate or black legs, missing muffs/beard (which is a dominant trait, so it takes a while to get rid of

) wrong color, such as BBR, Gold Duckwing, Columbian, etc, and even the wrong comb type (flops over, is single, is way too tall, etc) - All red flags.



Otherwise, I know someone who crossed Lavender and Wheaten Ameraucanas. . . The result looked like Brown-Reds, but they weren't. They were unrecognized colors, at least in the F1 stage. But I still knew them as Ameraucanas because the breeder explained, and because everything else about them fit the breed standard.

Yes, there are "pet quality" Ameraucanas, but there's a big difference concerning Easter Eggers in that they are not "pet quality" because they just aren't Ameraucanas. That is the same as calling a white shanked, lavender colored bird a Leghorn. Even if it looks like one, lays white eggs like one, and has a single comb like one.

 

[HaikuHeritageFarm]

Quote:
And that makes total sense to me, I just don't understand why two birds with known multi-generation Ameraucana background would suddenly become an EE if it pops out of the shell with a sport color. I think the EE terminology, possibly initially adopted by Am breeders as a welcome way to differentiate from their purebred birds, is maybe getting thrown about a bit too liberally?

I think the debate gets a lot fuzzier in this group where so many of us A) Experiment with non-standard variations of standard breeds, often blending lines and colors of a single breed to create various colors and other traits and B) Deal daily with confusion over faults caused by "production" strains of standardized breeds. I've just worked in animal husbandry in a variety of species now and I have NEVER run across the confusion caused by Ameraucana vs. EE anywhere.

In other breeds where the hatchery version doesn't remotely resemble standard, we just call them hatchery birds or production strains, fully acknowledging and explaining to newcomers that it could be a grab bag of multiple breeds combined as a possible reason for why it doesn't look like the birds they've seen online.

Has the breed club released an official definition?

 

[ArizonaDesertChicks]

Quote:
And that makes total sense to me, I just don't understand why two birds with known multi-generation Ameraucana background would suddenly become an EE if it pops out of the shell with a sport color. I think the EE terminology, possibly initially adopted by Am breeders as a welcome way to differentiate from their purebred birds, is maybe getting thrown about a bit too liberally?

I think the debate gets a lot fuzzier in this group where so many of us A) Experiment with non-standard variations of standard breeds, often blending lines and colors of a single breed to create various colors and other traits and B) Deal daily with confusion over faults caused by "production" strains of standardized breeds. I've just worked in animal husbandry in a variety of species now and I have NEVER run across the confusion caused by Ameraucana vs. EE anywhere.

In other breeds where the hatchery version doesn't remotely resemble standard, we just call them hatchery birds or production strains, fully acknowledging and explaining to newcomers that it could be a grab bag of multiple breeds combined as a possible reason for why it doesn't look like the birds they've seen online.

Has the breed club released an official definition?

I agree that the term Easter Egger (and mutt) is being used too liberally and wish we had a different name for the hatchery EEs, versus the EE mixes.

1. The term 'Easter Egger' refers to the chickens bred at hatcheries, specifically for blue/green eggs and which also have pea combs, muffs/beards, a certain body type, etc. These EEs are not mixed with other breeds to get those traits, but are bred to other EEs. They can occasionally be missing muffs/beard or have a bad pea comb, but so can purebred Ameraucanas.

2. According to the original post on this thread and other posts on BYC, 'Easter Egger' also refers to any offspring produced by breeding an Easter Egger or Ameraucana with any other type of chicken, which can produce chicks with any type of comb, features, etc. We can not do this with any other breed or type of chicken. For ex: Once a production Red is bred to another type (say a SLW), that chick is no longer a Production Red, but a mixed breed or mutt. If we breed a hatchery EE to that same BPR, we still get an EE (which may be why EEs are called mutts, and PR and sexlinks are not)

Following the rules of post #1 on this thread, the offspring from two Ameraucanas that are not the same color are now EEs because they no longer breed true, just like the hatchery EEs. According to these rules, my black pullet pictured with the 3 Wheatens is also an EE (she's from the BW Am. roo and a Blue Am. hen, plus I also have a very pretty Blue EE pullet from those same two Ameraucanas that is also considered an EE, because there's no telling what color her chicks would be)

 

[1 Bad Rotti]

It's been awfully quite, where is everyone?

 

[JoAnn_WI_4-H_Mom]

Would it be possible to drop the EE label altogether?

It was a marketing ploy, designed to get people to buy birds that would lay eggs in "Easter Egg" colors. It never was, or intended to be, a breed or sub-breed.

Is this somewhat the terminology we have for other breeds, and explain why it could not be used for Ameraucanas?

SOP-Ameraucanas: attempting to match the published standard for traits and plumage.

ShowQuality-Ameraucanas: attempting to match SOP, and show results are proving that others agree with your progress.

PetQuality-Ameraucanas: attempting to match SOP, but aren't really up to the grade.

NewColor-Ameraucanas: attempting to match the published standard for traits but with an unapproved plumage coloration

Mixed Breed/Cross Breed/Mutt chickens (which may very well lay blue/green eggs without having any other Ameraucana traits)

People really seem to have passionate reactions to the labels in this breed. Would it help to abandon the labels that are so upsetting?

 

[Illia]

They're only upsetting because people with EE's, not Ameraucanas, don't like to think that their birds are not what they were told they are. . .

I have all three, but I'm not complaining. When I first found out my EE's weren't Araucanas nor Ameraucanas, I didn't complain. I was very interested, actually. In fact I was hoping mine were Araucanas, because they sounded so neat. . . So, I got some real Araucanas, too.

Also, truly, if this were the case for another breed. . . No one would complain. If someone came up with a Sex Link and called it a Rhode Island Red, then people corrected them, no one would make such a big deal about it. They'd learn and move on. If someone brought up a bird with slate soles on the feet of their black bird they called a Jersey Giant, people would say "that's an Australorp" - And noone would complain or fret.

A lot of people even ask their EE's rather be called "pet-quality" Ameraucanas, but truly, there IS a difference. . . EE's from hatcheries have little to practically no relation to Ameraucanas, and for one, they're obviously out-crossed or never were Ameraucanas in the beginning, as most have yellow or green legs. And a lot also have the Columbian gene, which the only Ameraucana carrying that are Buffs. . . Which are really rare anyway. Ameraucanas began from the same roots EE's did, but after that each went their own separate ways.

 

[ArizonaDesertChicks]

I have no problem with calling the hatchery birds Easter Eggers, but don't get why people are calling all offspring from Easter Eggers an EE - you would never take a Production Red and breed it to another type of chicken and then still call the offspring a Production Red. Easter Eggers from the hatcheries are not mutts - all chickens, even Ameraucanas, have used more than 1 type of chicken in their background/heritage to get the final product. The hatchery Easter Eggers are not being bred to other types of chickens and are not mutts. They are bred for certain features, the same as all other hatchery chickens, and are pretty consistent. I have both Easter Egggers and Ameraucanas too and like them both - they have the same type personality - very sweet and docile.

I've purchased Easter Eggers from my local feed store a few times (they get their chickens from Ideal) and have ordered a large group from My Pet Chicken, which gave me a much greater variety of colors. Almost all of my hatchery Easter Eggers from these two places have had slate legs - I've had a couple with green legs, but have never had one with yellow legs. I've been lucky and have never gotten a clean-faced on either. All but one have laid either minty (blue/green) or olive colored eggs. One of mine does lay that pinkish color.

 

[GammaPoppyLilyFlutter]

Quote:
Too true. Went to feed store where I got my 2 EE chicks (that were labeled "Ameraucana") to look at the baby chicks. The guy there started telling me a bunch of stuff I already knew but didn't even know what an Easter Egger was.


Here is one of my EE babies, Quinn:

 

[heydeej]

gosh this is a looong thread!

I'm only up to pg 27 and have to stop to clean dog kennels. Maybe I can catch up to the rest of you later and join in on the conversation...