Differences EE, Ameraucana, & Araucana * Pls post pics*

[soonerdog]

ArizonaDesertChicks wrote:

Easter Eggers from the hatcheries are not mutts - all chickens, even Ameraucanas, have used more than 1 type of chicken in their background/heritage to get the final product. The hatchery Easter Eggers are not being bred to other types of chickens and are not mutts. They are bred for certain features, the same as all other hatchery chickens, and are pretty consistent.

I do agree that many hatcheries that are breeding Easter Eggers are pretty consistently breeding Easter Eggers for certain features such as, beards, muffs, the blue egg gene and perhaps even the pea comb.
But, I placed an order for Easter Eggers from a very well known hatchery (not gonna name them) but just to say a well known hatchery and they sent me chicks that when grown were nothing but MUTT MIXES!!! They were labeled as the Easter Egger chickens layers of blue, green, pink eggs.

I have both Easter Eggers and Ameraucana and comparably the birds that I received after grown were nothing but mixed chickens. Some with clean faces, large single combs like leghorns, several with muffs. They looked to be Easter Eggers mixed with leghorns, golden laced wyndotte, silver laced wyndotte, and a couple with slight feathering on their legs. Most layed brown eggs, a few layed white, and couple layed green.

I would like to say yes, there are hatcheries that are breeding Easter Eggers with other breeds of chickens with absolutely no thought behind breeding for consistency! It is happening and will continue to happen from now on.​

 

[ChickenWisperer]

We cannot definitively say that all EE's from hatcheries aren't mutts. While they are breeding for a "goal", they are not breeding for specific traits, for birds that will ALL conform to a STRICT standard and will all look the same. They are not even breeding, from what I've seen, for Quechua type either.

They have no standard, so they are not a breed. They have no "accepted" colors, no body type to breed for, no "accepted" comb type, shank color, leg color.... they loosely seem to fit a profile, but they just don't. I can order 50 EE chicks from a hatchery, and a percentage of them will have straight combs, pea combs, somewhere in-between; some might be a real color, others will be mixed; some will have green shanks, some slate and some yellow. There is no standard for them, they are not a breed - just a coined term.

How can you not consider a bird a mutt, when the have no standard?

My girl from Ideal is obviously an outcrossing from EE and some type of production bird. Most definitely a mutt. I purposefully got a F1 roo to make EE babies - how could you call those chicks a "breed"? Every one of my hens was a different breed, and all of those chicks not from the same mother would be different. I don't call that a breed.

 

[HaikuHeritageFarm]

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Eh, I'm not going to argue the rest but this statement is very narrow minded. There are many landrace strains of chicken that, while they do not have a standard, are more genetically pure than any of our "Standard" breeds of chicken.

 

[ChickenWisperer]

Quote:
Eh, I'm not going to argue the rest but this statement is very narrow minded. There are many landrace strains of chicken that, while they do not have a standard, are more genetically pure than any of our "Standard" breeds of chicken.

Sorry, but not really. I bred EEs for awhile, and have owned pure birds and the mutts. I currently only own mutt EEs. I don't have anything against them, but claiming they are something they are not isn't right to me.

The definition of a breed is one that conforms to a written, clear standard. EE's have no standard. And your typical EEs that you see running about (in my experience) are not and largely do not look to be genetically pure Quechua. And even so, there is a difference between a strain and a breed.

 

[HaikuHeritageFarm]

Quote:
Eh, I'm not going to argue the rest but this statement is very narrow minded. There are many landrace strains of chicken that, while they do not have a standard, are more genetically pure than any of our "Standard" breeds of chicken.

Sorry, but not really. I bred EEs for awhile, and have owned pure birds and the mutts. I currently only own mutt EEs. I don't have anything against them, but claiming they are something they are not isn't right to me.

The definition of a breed is one that conforms to a written, clear standard. EE's have no standard. And your typical EEs that you see running about (in my experience) are not and largely do not look to be genetically pure Quechua. And even so, there is a difference between a strain and a breed.

No, sorry, you can not simply make up the definition of a word because it suits your purpose.

Per Mirriam Webster:

breed noun
1: a group of usually domesticated animals or plants presumably related by descent from common ancestors and visibly similar in most characters

It's pretty generalized really. The family of barn cats that I had as a child could be a "breed" according to this definition.

 

[livin-green]

Quote:
It's pretty generalized really. The family of barn cats that I had as a child could be a "breed" according to this definition.

I haven't weighed in on this debate because I'm not really up on all the standards and genetics of chickens, but according to your definition, my blued-eyed cat is now a Siamese! Since he is a feline with blue cross-eyes, darkish face/ears, and typical temperament, he is now a Siamese breed...we'll just ignore the fact that he has tabby-stripes all over him....Somehow that just doesnt' work.

Why would it be different for chickens? I have yet to come across a Standard breed that has a varying leg colors, just any ole color of feathering, varying body types, and possibly any kind of comb type. And is there any recognized breed out there that can lay anything from a plain old brown egg to a pink to any number of shades of a blue/green color? I believe all these specific genetic traits govern what is or isn't considered a specific breed, creating a defined standard. A chicken cannot have most of the same traits, or even all but one, and be truly the same breed. If a specific standard is not followed, then the entire animal kingdom would be up for debate.

If someone decided to start crossing specific chicken breeds--duplicating and culling certain genetics traits--to create a specific set of traits (a standard) that can be duplicated and followed by others, then EEs could be considered a breed. This takes years to do, but maybe one day the EE will be an accepted breed.

 

[ChickenWisperer]

I'm talking about what it means to the APA (which decides on the definition of a breed). I didn't make up the definition; I'm going by what the APA lays out. Not what Mirriam Webster says, as that is a very loose definition (by my standards).

If they were non-standard Ameraucanas, I would have no argument. But as Illia has said, it's very rare that someone comes along and mixes two different colors to make non-standard Ameraucanas. The project colors, like lavendar, or non-accepted colors like splash are more understandable.

But just because a EE has a non-standard color, doesn't make it a non-standard Ameraucana. And even if an EE has standard coloring like blue or black, that doesn't make it an Ameraucana.

I agree with livin-green, they made my point perfectly.

I have a chow/lab/border collie mix. Everyone says she looks just like a lab - but I know she is not. Is it right for me to call her a lab? Just because she looks like one? No, it's not - because she isn't. She may share some simular traits; a simular face, a simular color, and (at times) a simular personality. But she is not, genetically, a lab.

 

[1 Bad Rotti]

Who cares?? I don't see what the fuss is all about, why do people get so upset if they are called mutts? Personally I don't care what they're called, I like them. Not all people care about the SOP and showing. I have chickens because its my hobby, its what I enjoy doing. That's part of the whole reason I wanted EEs, because they are different and although a lot of them look alike and have the same characteristics you never know what you're gonna get. As far as I'm concerned you can call them whatever you want, I'm not into the "my chicken's better than yours", and I dont like that crowd at all.

 

[ChickenWisperer]

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I don't think anybody here is insinuating that anybodies birds are better than somebody elses

 

[Sierra pachie bars]

I own both. I do think hatcheries should not say they are something they are not. I even told my local feedstore and they were like ah who cares. When I sell chicks I am honest tell them they are ee's, but some people are not honest. Or they simply don't know. I have a friend and neighbor who purchased what they were told was amercaunas. When they are clearly ee's. They were upset to not being told the truth. Shocked because the person they got them from had many many chickens and breeds. I showed them my pure breed and showed them. I am still looking for someone who has good amercaunas. So many are flawed for the standards. If anyone ever sells any chicks and ships let me know. Because I have been looking for sometime. It is not easy to find them or at least what I am looking for. Lol
Ee's are indeed a wonderful bird. I love mine but I also love my amercaunas. I like both to add to my baskets for the color.
I love the photos of the ee roosters posted. So darn pretty. Cant wait for my ee roo to grow up he's still in the I look kinda funky stage.