Discussing details of mottled chicken genetics

[MysteryChicken]

Wasn't able to get the pictures of Bigfoot I wanted to grab for you, but I'll have time tomorrow. We bought 240lbs of chicken feed, & it was a pain to pull in the heavy duty wagon, & it took awhile to sort, fill the bin, & feed the birds. Had to collect, & put eggs away also. We were abit busy.

 

[MysteryChicken]

I forgot, one of those feathers from Squeakers is from his shoulder after he was done molting, & got more spots.

 

[The Moonshiner]

I have a counterproposal- it’s not mottling at all. Though in looks it’s amazingly close to mottling, I believe it’s actually leakage.

I’ve seen this pattern before. I have to admit, I’m a bit obsessed with chicken genetics, more specifically the genetics of mixed breeds. I love their unique patterns. I used to look through threads where people just shared pictures of their mixes, and I still do sometimes. Usually it doesn’t look as close to mottling as this, but I’ve seen a few that look very close to your roosters.

Here are some examples (not my pictures)-

View attachment 2409941View attachment 2409942
These are pictures of Easter egger roosters from Google.

View attachment 2409930View attachment 2409931View attachment 2409932View attachment 2409933View attachment 2409935View attachment 2409936View attachment 2409937
Various pictures of American game roosters off the internet.

https://www.backyardchickens.com/th...dsomest-rooster-contest.1173088/post-20610347
Another EE rooster, owned by a member on here.

https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/wyandotte-10-weeks-sexing.1389432/#post-22811052
Red sex link/cinnamon queen cockerel (using a silver laced wyandotte in the cross) also owned by a member here.

https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/rhode-island-red.1287809/
Red sex link rooster owned by a member.

https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/show-off-your-roosters.1135004/post-19547448
Mixed breed rooster owned by a member.

Notice that all these are roosters, and all have the silver gene. I have seen gold roosters with this pattern- they have red spots instead of silver.

If it really is dominant mottling, then you should be able to get roosters with white spots who have two copies of the gold gene, and both silver and gold hens with white spots.

Oh, and I think @nicalandia knows a lot about mottling, if they want to join the discussion.

I agree.
I've seen it on oegb. That was back in the day and it was common and seen as a fault so never really breed the ones that had it.
Now days ive seen it on silver leghorns. Like you mentioned ive only seen it on roosters. It never carried over to hens and with crosses I've done it never appeared on gold duckwings on the silvers.
IDK but I agree it is not a dominate mottling.

 

[NatJ]

I’m not sure if you’re aware of it, but there’s a variety of d’uccle that is silver and mottled (called silver mille fleur or just silver) https://www.google.com/search?q=silver+d'uccle&client=safari&hl=en-us&prmd=isnv&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwii7Im_0YDtAhWSrp4KHdy_CaIQ_AUoAXoECCEQAQ&biw=375&bih=553.

I think I had seen pictures of them before, but they were apparently unknown to the authors of the paper I was reading, and I had forgotten about them.

Given how pretty they are, I might expect them to be more popular than they are.

 

[NatJ]

I have a counterproposal- it’s not mottling at all. Though in looks it’s amazingly close to mottling, I believe it’s actually leakage.

That is interesting. You're right, a lot of those pictures do resemble the roosters MysteryChicken has.

Squeakers is a cross of Mille Fleur D'uccle hen, & Silver Duckwing OEGB.
Here's Squeaker's Father, his name is Phoenix.

Given that Phoenix has a solid black breast, the mother (Mille Fleur) of course has mottling, and Squeakers himself shows white dots on the breast-- I had assumed it was the usual recessive mottling gene, with Phoenix carrying one copy of it.

gonna Breed Phoenix (OEGB) to the D'uccle hen again to see if I can get a Female version of Squeakers.

That could certainly help clear up what genes are involved. Because RoostersAreAwesome and The Moonshiner say the leakage only occurs in roosters, a mottled-looking female should be actually mottled, and that would prove Phoenix to be carrying mottling. But if several females are produced and none have mottling, it will be more likely that Squeakers and Bigfoot have the male-specific leakage instead.

 

[MysteryChicken]

Found a very interesting study.
https://www.backyardchickens.com/at...410543/?hash=5f53bb1d303264969a3135c0f7b5b8e5

 

[NatJ]

Found a very interesting study.
https://www.backyardchickens.com/at...410543/?hash=5f53bb1d303264969a3135c0f7b5b8e5

Different link, but the same .pdf I was reading & talking about.
I agree, it's very interesting.

 

[MysteryChicken]

Different link, but the same .pdf I was reading & talking about.
I agree, it's very interesting.

Really? I'll have a look.

 

[MysteryChicken]

Different link, but the same .pdf I was reading & talking about.
I agree, it's very interesting.

Okay, it's the same.
If the study is accurate, I should produce females with the same pattern too.

 

[msiler]

That will be interesting to see! If you cross your rooster to a female who's known to not have mottling, it should be pretty easy to figure out. So a female of known ancestry would be best (maybe something common like a New Hampshire.) I was re-reading some more of that paper, and they said one researcher thought mottling was dominant because on a wild-type background (e+), the chicks showed some mottling with only one copy of the gene--but when they raised the chicks longer, the mottling was not visible in the adult feathers unless the bird had two copies of the gene, so the authors of this paper decided to call it recessive. (I'm thinking that being able to identify the heterozygotes when young would be very handy in a breeding program!) I can agree with this researchers findings! Recently, I hatched out a random assortment of silkie eggs from a breeder who had some true mottled silke pens, among others. I had one chick hatch out. Mottled down, the classic yellow and black I had seen on some mottled cochin chicks I had. As she grew though, her white mottling remained restricted to her toe and crest feathers. Right at about the fivve month mark, they disappeared. She is solid blac now. Similarly, I crossed my mottled cochin hens with my black cochin roo. All the chicks hatched out with mottled down, and followed the same type of feathering pattern as the silkie. These guys still have a little bit of the "frosting" as I call it as they are young, but it keeps getting fainter. I can share some photos tomorrow. Interesting thread!