Disturbing chick order

[WoDia]

Do you recommend any particular sources?

I'm judging by my own personal experience, yes.
But I'm also judging by the experiences many other people report here.
And I've read what the hatcheries say on their own websites.
And I've read what they send out in emails when the Post Office refuses to accept chicks due to bad weather, and they are suddenly left with many more chicks than usual (which helps clarify what "usual" is for them.)
And I've read information on various state cooperative extension websites and similar sources (about ordering from hatcheries, and about how to run hatcheries.)
And I've read the websites of some incubator manufacturers (including ones that make hatchery-sized units.)
And I've read websites from some companies that produce the parent stock for popular hybrids, and give advice on the hatching & selling of them.
And I know at least a little bit about supply and demand, and about what makes a company profitable. (Hint: wasting resources to hatch chicks & then kill them does not help profits.)
I'm pretty sure I've read some other sources too, but this is what I can remember just off the top of my head.

So if you have particular resources to recommend, that I haven't already consulted, I'd be interested to learn what they are.


I have nothing against that idea, but can you tell me how it differs from what the hatcheries already do?

I’ll provide a few examples…. unfortunately…. worldwide as well as in the U.S.

https://www.peta.org/blog/united-states-postal-service-chick-deaths/
https://investigations.peta.org/chicks-drowned-burned-crushed-india/
https://investigations.peta.org/chicken-supplier-kroger-arbys/

I’m NOT a member of PETA, but they‘re a good example of investigating. I’m not trying to start a major debate either. I’m a vegetarian actually, so that was part of my interest when I was asked by a professor to do some research on the subject of factory farming and similar issues.

 

[JacinLarkwell]

I’ll provide a few examples…. unfortunately…. worldwide as well as in the U.S.

https://www.peta.org/blog/united-states-postal-service-chick-deaths/
https://investigations.peta.org/chicks-drowned-burned-crushed-india/
https://investigations.peta.org/chicken-supplier-kroger-arbys/

I’m NOT a member of PETA, but they‘re a good example of investigating. I’m not trying to start a major debate either. I’m a vegetarian actually, so that was part of my interest when I was asked by a professor to do some research on the subject of factory farming and similar issues.

They're also pretty good at getting fake video too, or at past they were a few years ago

 

[Henhouse Harlot]

It's back to education then. Hm.
Perhaps someone with skill could craft some sort of "guide to transporting live chicks/animals" pamphlet? Maybe host free "handling live animals in the mail" education clinics for your local post office..? Any ideas?

 

[Henhouse Harlot]

I’ll provide a few examples…. unfortunately…. worldwide as well as in the U.S.

https://www.peta.org/blog/united-states-postal-service-chick-deaths/
https://investigations.peta.org/chicks-drowned-burned-crushed-india/
https://investigations.peta.org/chicken-supplier-kroger-arbys/

I’m NOT a member of PETA, but they‘re a good example of investigating. I’m not trying to start a major debate either. I’m a vegetarian actually, so that was part of my interest when I was asked by a professor to do some research on the subject of factory farming and similar issues.

 

[NatJ]

I’ll provide a few examples…. unfortunately…. worldwide as well as in the U.S.

PETA has a reputation for unreliable reporting, so I generally do not use them as a source.
However, the articles you linked are all discussing things I was aware of from other sources that I trust more (so yes, I DID know about all of this).

https://www.peta.org/blog/united-states-postal-service-chick-deaths/

That one's about chicks that die in shipping, and wanders into problems with factory farming in general.

No amount of "hatch to order" by hatcheries will fix problems with the Postal Service.
Every chick that died in shipping was hatched, boxed, and sent to someone who DID order it, did want it, and did have proper facilities to care for it.
Also, that was news only because it was unusual. It is NOT the normal thing with shipped chicks.

The bad conditions of animals in cages, and debeaking, have nothing to do with whether chicks were ordered before they were hatched. That is what happens to the birds that ARE wanted. Yes, it's a problem, but not one caused by the way hatcheries operate.

https://investigations.peta.org/chicks-drowned-burned-crushed-india/

That is mostly about male chicks of laying breeds.

Again, no amount of "hatch to order" will fix that, until someone can find a practical way to determine gender of chicks before they develop in the eggs, or find someone willing to order male chicks.

It also mentions chicks hatched with deformities-- that is something that happens on occasion, for any species (including humans.) Large commercial breeders try very hard to breed chickens with no deformities, because they want healthy chickens suitable for laying eggs, or producing meat, or whatever purpose they intend those chicks to serve. (Small breeders also try to breed for chickens with no deformities, but it looks like you're more concerned with the large ones.)

As regards the workers treating chicks roughly: I agree that is a problem, but it has nothing to do with whether orders should be placed before chicks are hatched. It could be fixed by a combination of proper training of workers, proper supervision of workers, and hiring enough workers that they do not have to rush.
https://investigations.peta.org/chicks-drowned-burned-crushed-india/

https://investigations.peta.org/chicken-supplier-kroger-arbys/

Yes, late-hatching chicks, weak chicks, and chicks with deformitites are a problem.
And what to do with them is a good question.
But hatch-to-order would not help in any way: these chicks would still be a problem.

I know of at least one hatchery that DOES sell late-hatched chicks as a special deal, packed up at the end of the day when it's too late for them to go in other orders:
https://www.cacklehatchery.com/product/hatchery-surprise/

Weak chicks and deformed chicks will always happen, if chicks are hatched at all. If someone tries to raise them with normal chicks, they will suffer, and die slowly. (I think a quick, painless death is the kindest thing that can be done for them. The only question is how best to provide it.)

The part about "never experiencing their mothers’ nurturing or warmth" is just stupid. Chicks in an incubator are already warm. And a hen will often KILL chicks that hatch late or deformed. Or she will walk away with the healthy chicks, leaving the late ones to die of exposure. (Not always, but quite often enough to make PETA sound stupid for saying it.)

I’m a vegetarian actually, so that was part of my interest when I was asked by a professor to do some research on the subject of factory farming and similar issues.

Are we discussing hatcheries that sell chicks to the public?
Or ones that hatch large numbers of chicks for factory farming?

Because the ones for factory farming DO have a contract for a certain number of chicks, before they ever put the eggs in the incubator. They would be the BEST examples of what you say should happen, but they are the ones primarily being criticized in the sources you linked.

(Yes, I agree that there are problems with the current factory farming system. But since this thread started as a discussion of hatcheries, the other factory-farming points are very much off-topic.)

 

[WoDia]

Goodness, I was just pointing to some subjects I thought were also sad AFTER I read the thread starters post. I sympathized with them, but you turned this into a posting that you spent way too much time on…. directed specifically to me. Pretty sad that you talk AT someone and not want to TALK with them instead.

 

[NatJ]

Goodness, I was just pointing to some subjects I thought were also sad AFTER I read the thread starters post. I sympathized with them, but you turned this into a posting that you spent way too much time on…. directed specifically to me. Pretty sad that you talk AT someone and not want to TALK with them instead.

OK, I'm quite willing to drop it.

Some people like to discuss points back and forth about a topic-- but I have trouble recognizing online who likes that, and who does not.

 

[3KillerBs]

I’ll provide a few examples…. unfortunately…. worldwide as well as in the U.S.

https://www.peta.org/blog/united-states-postal-service-chick-deaths/
https://investigations.peta.org/chicks-drowned-burned-crushed-india/
https://investigations.peta.org/chicken-supplier-kroger-arbys/

I’m NOT a member of PETA, but they‘re a good example of investigating. I’m not trying to start a major debate either. I’m a vegetarian actually, so that was part of my interest when I was asked by a professor to do some research on the subject of factory farming and similar issues.

PETA is not a credible source. They are activists who have been known to stage fakes to support their agenda.

 

[Sono]

So I'm sharing my horrible experience with TSC this past week: ordered 10 chicks to be delivered in March but was notified by the hatchery they would be delivered early. The weather here had turned, minus temps and snow without an end. For the benefit of the birds, I made several attempts to cancel, both phone calls and email with no success. Finally on Saturday I spoke to a TSC staff person who told me "just refuse delivery when the post office calls you, the birds will die and then we can refund your money". REALLY, UNACCEPTABLE. I finally got a manager involved, who called their hatchery to get a stop on the shipment that wasn't even scheduled until Feb 28!! I have written three letters to TSC corporate regarding this inhumane incident. Want all you chicken folks to be informed and beware! I was floored with their inappropriate and uneducated staff, hoping to prevent other buyers from receiving a box of dead birds. Buyer beware of TSC

If you want free chicks ( and you live in a rural area ) I was told to go to the post office the day after Easter, you can buy the " Undeliverable" chicks for 25 cents that people werent home, no address found or whatever reason, this poor chicks die for that reason. I will be checking my PO soon as I heard they are loaded with undeliverable chicks every year.

 

[Sono]

PETA is not a credible source. They are activists who have been known to stage fakes to support their agenda.

People Eat Tasty Animals.... PETA