Dixie Rainbows

[U_Stormcrow]

TY, i was hoping to find a dual purpose breed that would rival the Cornish cross in weight in a few more weeks of growth while growing out the hens and one rooster to hatch the eggs and hopefully reproduce my own flock any suggestions on another breed

Oh, and read THIS by @Tre3hugger , who has done exactly what I just recommended you do, and is beginning his own sustainable dual purpose journey.

 

[3KillerBs]

TY, i was hoping to find a dual purpose breed that would rival the Cornish cross in weight in a few more weeks of growth

No such thing exists. It has taken many decades of careful breeding to achieve the Cornish X meat bird -- the most productive and efficient source of quality protein that the world has ever known.

CornishX are "purpose built" to be a highly efficient, extremely fast growing bird for meat production. Those traits are emphasized even to the detriment of the bird's longevity and heartiness. Commercial layers (like the various Sex Link and certain leghorn lines) have been "purpose built" to be small body mass (because they cost less to feed) frequent and early large egg producers, again at the expense of longevity - most are famed for reproductive problems in year 3+, sometimes sooner), and for significant drops in egg production after first adult molt - which is why they often become dog food, etc around that time in commercial practice.

As long as either of those are the points against which you measure, you are guaranteed disappointment.

This.

 

[pepe1]

Yes. Lower your expectations.

CornishX are "purpose built" to be a highly efficient, extremely fast growing bird for meat production. Those traits are emphasized even to the detriment of the bird's longevity and heartiness. Commercial layers (like the various Sex Link and certain leghorn lines) have been "purpose built" to be small body mass (because they cost less to feed) frequent and early large egg producers, again at the expense of longevity - most are famed for reproductive problems in year 3+, sometimes sooner), and for significant drops in egg production after first adult molt - which is why they often become dog food, etc around that time in commercial practice.

As long as either of those are the points against which you measure, you are guaranteed disappointment.

A good dual purpose bird, if you will forgive the analogy, is a Chevy Impala Sedan. It looks like every other sedan on the road. It doesn't get great fuel economy, it doesn't accelerate like a shot, doesn't stick corners like its glued to them, doesn't brake on a dime, isn't particularly spacious or posh.

What it does do is reliably get you from place to place. Solidly "middle of pack".

What we see from hatchery stock (and a bunch of breeder stock too!) is largely "dual purpose" breeds which favor egg laying at the expense of meat production - that's the way the backyard market has tended for the last several decades. There has also been a distinct trend towards improved free ranging ability as a way to distinguish from battery raised birds.

Free rangers consume less feed, great, but are more active. That's a more flavorful, lower weight, less tender bird - which you are culling at greater age in an effort to make it what it isn't - a "CX-sized bird for the table". There has been some targetted and successful effort at putting meat back on those bones - among some breeders - but also a lot of hatchery birds of no particular exceptionalism. The "Ranger" term is as much marketting as a solid indicator of charateristics in your poultry purchase. Even going with a heritage isn't a guarantee - the Wyandotte was developed a bit more than a 100 years ago, an attempt to get something like Brahma weight, w/o the Brahma late... Its a bird that lays medium eggs maybe 3 days out of 5, is cold hearty, doesn't start laying till 5 or 6 months, and probably weighs less than 4.5# as a cockerel at week 16. And yet, it was a dual-purpose "improvement" upon what came before.

Our tastes as humans have changed a lot, too. What we now consider "tender" would be mushy by past standards, we like less gaminess and less tooth in our meals, together with greater protein.

My recommend is that you consider how much space you have, how large a flock you can reasonably support, and how many eggs you want (on average) each week. Think about your incubator. Then plan around all those things. I incubate 12 eggs every 3 weeks +/-. Assuming a 75% hatch rate, and a 50/50 split male/female I'm looking at 12 birds a month, give or take. That means I can cull six males a month for the table, if desired, while maintaining flock size and gorwing up hens for replacing those aging out. During the same month, I can, in theory, take an equal number of hens (all from 15+ months ago) who are coming into adult molt, and are now suitable only for stew, stock, or sausage. That's not enough protein for my wife and I to support our diet, but its a goodly amount.

Something like 40% of my flock is under productive age, in the process of growing up, at any given time. Either hens not yet at start of lay, or cockerels putting on table weight. Even free ranging, we have a bill around $120/month for near 500# of feed from alocal mill. I offset that with egg sales, and credit myself the costs of equivalent proteins I'm not buying at the supermarket. On that basis, its barely break even.

Now, look to my flock size in my signature. I actually have a culling project to select over time for the best "dual purpose" bird for my piece of land and management style. As expected, its going very slowly, though I have had a few early successes, I've not yet been able to capitalize on them. I've also had some major setbacks. You have to plan for those too.

Your advantage over my starting out is that things have settled down, you have choice in birds. I suggest you use some charts, like this one, this one, this one. You are looking for a breed laying large eggs, at least 260 year, early maturing to moderately early maturing, that eventually produces an adult hen over 5.5#. You want to consider your climate as well.

Once you have selected a few breeds that you think will work for you, use the Breed forums to ask about those particularly - experiences of others, best breeders/lines for those birds, etc and dial your selections in further.

What you then expect is an egg two days out of three, from hens that start laying around 20-24 weeks (18-22 if you are lucky), with cockerels in the 4.5 - 5.5# weight range around 16 weeks. None of which is worthy of writing home about - but it is achievable and sustainable. After that, you do as I do - selectively cull. Eat your smallest males, breeding the size up. Mark the hens who come into production the slowest, and don't incubate their eggs. Don't incubate small eggs.
Basically, the underperformers are consumed, the best become the "seed stock" for the next generation. Always have one productive roo and a back up, plan on replacing your top roo annually to keep some diversity in the lines.

Hope that helps.

Ty that was great info

 

[U_Stormcrow]

Ty that was great info

Happy to share my mistakes, in hopes that others need not make them to learn from them for themselves. May BYC be as informative, supportive, and as generally helpful to you on your chicken journey as its been to me.

 

[CNJ]

After going around in a circle with Buff Orpingtons, Jersey Giants, Australorps, Breese, Dark Cornish, White Plymouth Rock , Mcmurray Roasters and Jumbo Cornish Cross, I said to myself. I should have started with Dark Cornish and White Plymouth Rocks.

My 4 month old White Plymouth Rock started laying before my Breese/Australorp crosses and the Dark Cornish Rooster has a lot of meat on them. Also, the White Plymouth Rock eggs are brown and large for young pullets. The eggs will probably get bigger as time goes on.

 

[pepe1]

Yes. Lower your expectations.

CornishX are "purpose built" to be a highly efficient, extremely fast growing bird for meat production. Those traits are emphasized even to the detriment of the bird's longevity and heartiness. Commercial layers (like the various Sex Link and certain leghorn lines) have been "purpose built" to be small body mass (because they cost less to feed) frequent and early large egg producers, again at the expense of longevity - most are famed for reproductive problems in year 3+, sometimes sooner), and for significant drops in egg production after first adult molt - which is why they often become dog food, etc around that time in commercial practice.

As long as either of those are the points against which you measure, you are guaranteed disappointment.

A good dual purpose bird, if you will forgive the analogy, is a Chevy Impala Sedan. It looks like every other sedan on the road. It doesn't get great fuel economy, it doesn't accelerate like a shot, doesn't stick corners like its glued to them, doesn't brake on a dime, isn't particularly spacious or posh.

What it does do is reliably get you from place to place. Solidly "middle of pack".

What we see from hatchery stock (and a bunch of breeder stock too!) is largely "dual purpose" breeds which favor egg laying at the expense of meat production - that's the way the backyard market has tended for the last several decades. There has also been a distinct trend towards improved free ranging ability as a way to distinguish from battery raised birds.

Free rangers consume less feed, great, but are more active. That's a more flavorful, lower weight, less tender bird - which you are culling at greater age in an effort to make it what it isn't - a "CX-sized bird for the table". There has been some targetted and successful effort at putting meat back on those bones - among some breeders - but also a lot of hatchery birds of no particular exceptionalism. The "Ranger" term is as much marketting as a solid indicator of charateristics in your poultry purchase. Even going with a heritage isn't a guarantee - the Wyandotte was developed a bit more than a 100 years ago, an attempt to get something like Brahma weight, w/o the Brahma late... Its a bird that lays medium eggs maybe 3 days out of 5, is cold hearty, doesn't start laying till 5 or 6 months, and probably weighs less than 4.5# as a cockerel at week 16. And yet, it was a dual-purpose "improvement" upon what came before.

Our tastes as humans have changed a lot, too. What we now consider "tender" would be mushy by past standards, we like less gaminess and less tooth in our meals, together with greater protein.

My recommend is that you consider how much space you have, how large a flock you can reasonably support, and how many eggs you want (on average) each week. Think about your incubator. Then plan around all those things. I incubate 12 eggs every 3 weeks +/-. Assuming a 75% hatch rate, and a 50/50 split male/female I'm looking at 12 birds a month, give or take. That means I can cull six males a month for the table, if desired, while maintaining flock size and gorwing up hens for replacing those aging out. During the same month, I can, in theory, take an equal number of hens (all from 15+ months ago) who are coming into adult molt, and are now suitable only for stew, stock, or sausage. That's not enough protein for my wife and I to support our diet, but its a goodly amount.

Something like 40% of my flock is under productive age, in the process of growing up, at any given time. Either hens not yet at start of lay, or cockerels putting on table weight. Even free ranging, we have a bill around $120/month for near 500# of feed from alocal mill. I offset that with egg sales, and credit myself the costs of equivalent proteins I'm not buying at the supermarket. On that basis, its barely break even.

Now, look to my flock size in my signature. I actually have a culling project to select over time for the best "dual purpose" bird for my piece of land and management style. As expected, its going very slowly, though I have had a few early successes, I've not yet been able to capitalize on them. I've also had some major setbacks. You have to plan for those too.

Your advantage over my starting out is that things have settled down, you have choice in birds. I suggest you use some charts, like this one, this one, this one. You are looking for a breed laying large eggs, at least 260 year, early maturing to moderately early maturing, that eventually produces an adult hen over 5.5#. You want to consider your climate as well.

Once you have selected a few breeds that you think will work for you, use the Breed forums to ask about those particularly - experiences of others, best breeders/lines for those birds, etc and dial your selections in further.

What you then expect is an egg two days out of three, from hens that start laying around 20-24 weeks (18-22 if you are lucky), with cockerels in the 4.5 - 5.5# weight range around 16 weeks. None of which is worthy of writing home about - but it is achievable and sustainable. After that, you do as I do - selectively cull. Eat your smallest males, breeding the size up. Mark the hens who come into production the slowest, and don't incubate their eggs. Don't incubate small eggs.
Basically, the underperformers are consumed, the best become the "seed stock" for the next generation. Always have one productive roo and a back up, plan on replacing your top roo annually to keep some diversity in the lines.

Hope that helps.

Yes it does TY, I ordered 20 Dixie Rainbows and have 10 cockerels and 9 pullets and at 8 weeks the males weigh 3 to 5 pounds, i will keep the largest rooster and the pullets and hatch the eggs in the spring, i hope to process at 15 weeks and will update Thanks again

 

[U_Stormcrow]

Yes it does TY, I ordered 20 Dixie Rainbows and have 10 cockerels and 9 pullets and at 8 weeks the males weigh 3 to 5 pounds, i will keep the largest rooster and the pullets and hatch the eggs in the spring, i hope to process at 15 weeks and will update Thanks again

an update as things progress is the best "thank you" you can provide, makes us all better chicken keepers, and continues to improve the quality of BYC as a resource. Appreciate it, and all the best in your efforts!

 

[pepe1]

I had 8 Roosters processed at 15 weeks and 2 days they weighted 4.3 to 6.1 pounds, I fed Dumor 20% Starter/grower the whole time, I lost one at 5 weeks to an accident and I had one develop leg problems at 13 weeks and a couple others limped a little at 15 weeks, not a good sign for longevity there were no issues with the 8 hens and 1 rooster I kept to hatch eggs and at 17 weeks i have not heard the Rooster crow nor did any of the others I processed, looking forward to Spring and hatching, will update

 

[pepe1]

I am very happy with my Dixie Rainbows, the males were fast growing and tender and meaty the hens started laying at 20 to 22 weeks and i get 6 to 8 eggs a day from 8 hens including double yolkers often, i have one that went broody and she is sitting on 15 eggs and covers them easily, they are due to hatch on May 10 and i am excited to see how they turn out

 

[pepe1]

The chicks have hatched 12 out of 15 eggs, very pretty colors but Mama is very protective and covers them right away so took a while to get an accurate count but pretty sure 12 hatched, 3 eggs left in broody box cant wait to see how they progress