DIY whole grain feed mix

[pinksapphire]

My free ranging flock of chickens are being feed a whole grain mix that I ferment for a couple of days before feeding.
I have sourced organic grain and beans locally so I am going to change there feed but am unsure if this is a healthy balanced feed for them?
ChatGPT has helped me with grain and beans ratios and suggest a mix of
Pea 25%
Field bean 25%
Barley 25%
Wheat 12.5%
Oats 12.5%
Does that sound like a good mix?

 

[Perris]

Chickens, ducks and geese each have different requirements. No one feed is going to suit all of them simultaneously.

 

[pinksapphire]

Chickens, ducks and geese each have different requirements. No one feed is going to suit all of them simultaneously.

Ok I hear you, so I would be aiming it for my laying hens then(I have edited my post to take out the duck and geese

 

[NatJ]

My free ranging flock of chickens are being feed a whole grain mix that I ferment for a couple of days before feeding.
I have sourced organic grain and beans locally so I am going to change there feed but am unsure if this is a healthy balanced feed for them?
ChatGPT has helped me with grain and beans ratios and suggest a mix of
Pea 25%
Field bean 25%
Barley 25%
Wheat 12.5%
Oats 12.5%
Does that sound like a good mix?

I think it's going to be too low in protein, and will be missing some vitamins & minerals. No, I don't know which ones, I just know that I've never yet seen a recipe that looked this simple that managed to account for everything.

I am assuming you could provide oyster shell separately to take care of the calcium needs of laying hens, so that's the one mineral I'm not concerned about.

@U_Stormcrow can you do a basic check on this? If I'm wrong, of course I want to know (a balanced recipe that simple would be great!)

 

[pinksapphire]

I think it's going to be too low in protein, and will be missing some vitamins & minerals. No, I don't know which ones, I just know that I've never yet seen a recipe that looked this simple that managed to account for everything.

I am assuming you could provide oyster shell separately to take care of the calcium needs of laying hens, so that's the one mineral I'm not concerned about.

@U_Stormcrow can you do a basic check on this? If I'm wrong, of course I want to know (a balanced recipe that simple would be great!)

Yes I have oyster shell available at all times for them, chatgpt has calculated the protein to be 17.8%
They free range over an acre of very good pasture so was hoping that they would balance it with this.
ChatGPT did think the amino acid Methionine could be low so I am considering giving them fish scraps once a week.
I also have kelp meal free choice.

 

[NatJ]

Yes I have oyster shell available at all times for them, chatgpt has calculated the protein to be 18%
They free range over an acre of very good pasture so was hoping that they would balance it with this.
ChatGPT did think the amino acid Methionine could be low so I am considering giving them fish scraps once a week.
I also have kelp meal free choice.

If the grain mix is only part of the diet, then it doesn't have to meet all of the nutritional needs of the chickens-- but they do need access to the right things to meet the rest of their needs.

Free ranging can be really hard to figure, because there is the question of what is actually there (plants, bugs, etc), and how much of it the chickens are able to get, and how much it changes in different seasons. For example, it might be fine in early summer but not in late winter.

For supplementing with fish, you might research how much should be needed at what intervals. The numbers probably exist (how much methionine per chicken per day, how much is already present in the grain mix, how much in the fish, then use that to figure how much fish for your number of chickens per day or week or whatever. It may not be perfectly accurate, but could help you know if you are at least close. Obvious example, a can of tuna probably provides more than one hen needs in one day, but probably not enough for 100 chickens for a week.)

Unfortunately, I don't know enough to figure out the details very well, which is why I tagged someone who hopefully can check it.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

I think it's going to be too low in protein, and will be missing some vitamins & minerals. No, I don't know which ones, I just know that I've never yet seen a recipe that looked this simple that managed to account for everything.

I am assuming you could provide oyster shell separately to take care of the calcium needs of laying hens, so that's the one mineral I'm not concerned about.

@U_Stormcrow can you do a basic check on this? If I'm wrong, of course I want to know (a balanced recipe that simple would be great!)

Basic Check? CHATGPT overestimates Protein content - its almost 17 based on my data sources. Fiber is a little high but OK, fat is (not surprisingly) low,. No sources of non-phytate phosphorus. Most of the P in that is unusable by the birds. Met is very low - I wouldn't recommend it for any birds of any age. Lys is very good (of course it is, half the recipe is pulses and legumes). Threonine barely makes the min recommend, but it does. Tryp is a trifle low. MKe is in the acceptable range (toward the lower end, the lack of fat).

Additionally, several of those ingredients, due to antinutritive factors, should not be used at the inclusion rates suggested - Winter Peas and Field beans, the primary protein sources.

Would definitely benefit from a product like Fertrell's Nutribalancer w/ Met, but still would not be my first, second, or third choice in feeding. Also, not the worst homebrew recipe I've ever seen. ChatGPT is making this easier for people to get at least a few numbers in the right ranges.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

Yes I have oyster shell available at all times for them, chatgpt has calculated the protein to be 17.8%
They free range over an acre of very good pasture so was hoping that they would balance it with this.
ChatGPT did think the amino acid Methionine could be low so I am considering giving them fish scraps once a week.
I also have kelp meal free choice.

Kelp meal is good for trace minerals and salt - I believe Joel Salatin uses it in his recipes for that reason.

I free range varied pasture. Its not magic. "hoping that they would balance it with this" is magical thinking. The actual answer is highly dependent on the pasture, AND is seasonally variable.

No, offering fish scraps once a week won't fix things, no matter how much fish you give them, for complicated reasons of biology I might explain later.

Good ChatGPT is starting to acknowledge some of its limits.

 

[PerkinandCo]

Yes I have oyster shell available at all times for them, chatgpt has calculated the protein to be 17.8%
They free range over an acre of very good pasture so was hoping that they would balance it with this.
ChatGPT did think the amino acid Methionine could be low so I am considering giving them fish scraps once a week.
I also have kelp meal free choice.

I have a question about the free-choice kelp meal. Do you provide that for your ducks as well, and if so, do they waste it or eat a lot of it? Or do they just take a nibble here and there? I'd love to provide my ducks with kelp meal, and have been pondering on how I would probably offer it (free-choice or in their feed mix).

On the note of methionine, I wonder what subbing some of the wheat or oat portion of your proposed recipe for BOSS (black-oil sunflower seeds) would do to your protein percentage / methionine levels. I've read that BOSS is a reasonably good source of methionine. Might be worth looking into? BOSS is also amazing for feathers, which you probably already know.

Best of luck with the feed mix! I've been on this journey with my flock of 12 ducks. Still adjusting and refining my recipes...I imagine I will be tweaking and testing different things for a long time. It's part of the fun!

- Perkin & Co.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

I have a question about the free-choice kelp meal. Do you provide that for your ducks as well, and if so, do they waste it or eat a lot of it? Or do they just take a nibble here and there? I'd love to provide my ducks with kelp meal, and have been pondering on how I would probably offer it (free-choice or in their feed mix).

On the note of methionine, I wonder what subbing some of the wheat or oat portion of your proposed recipe for BOSS (black-oil sunflower seeds) would do to your protein percentage / methionine levels. I've read that BOSS is a reasonably good source of methionine. Might be worth looking into? BOSS is also amazing for feathers, which you probably already know.

Best of luck with the feed mix! I've been on this journey with my flock of 12 ducks. Still adjusting and refining my recipes...I imagine I will be tweaking and testing different things for a long time. It's part of the fun!

- Perkin & Co.

BOSS would up the Met, and the fat - boss is VERY fatty, as well as the costs. Better off subbing the BOSS for the Oats than the Wheat - Oats average lower protein, lower met, lower tryp. Will cost you a bit of Lys relative to wheat, but Lys is already very good, and Sunflower has better Lys than either, so its still going to be very good.

but doesn't fix the problem w/ too much peas, too much field beans.

oh, and no reason you can't free choice the kelp meal - except that ducks are VERY messy eaters. I would expect (from my own duck experience) that it would be extremely wasteful.