Do fetuses float or sink?

[ThinMintTheChicken]

View attachment 3040975
I’m using this big styrofoam nightmare

I have the same kind and just had 9 chicks hatch, no problems
I also have 4 OEGB eggs that are 1-2 weeks behind, and another one thats currently on lockdown (very staggered hatch). Humidity and temp was never a problem either, maybe yours is a just a dud? Sorry for your poor hatch rate

 

[Oldegarlicshnapp]

I'm sort of confused about how that is to blame

I have no clue honestly, I’m pointing fingers cause I don’t know how they all ended up like that

At what stage did the embryos end up in the tip?

All the fully developed chicks (5) were at the tip

Was the yolk stuck at the tip during the early stages, did they just sink to the bottom half once they started filling up the shell?

My memory is foggy, but I think they were they ought to be at the air cell during development. Dunno what changed

 

[Oldegarlicshnapp]

maybe yours is a just a dud? Sorry for your poor hatch rate

Agghhh it’s been such a dud purchase. Water pours out the bottom at times, and there’s instances where it’s freezing and says otherwise. I’m glad yours is working out well though! Congrats to you and your little guys

 

[NatJ]

All the fully developed chicks (5) were at the tip

The air cell is at the big end. By hatching time, the air cell fills about 1/4 of the shell-- it is really big.

The chick usually fills the middle and the small end, basically everywhere except the air cell. (It is all curled up, so describing which way it faces can get really confusing.)

The chick pips (makes a hole) into the air cell, and then through the outside of the shell.

The pip (hole) is often where the air cell meets the chick, so not right at the big end and not in the middle of the side, but somewhere in between them.

Is this different than what you saw with your eggs?

 

[EggSighted4Life]

Not sure how to further diagnose other than maybe saying how the hatch turned out poorly. All the chicks developed at the egg tip rather than at the air cell. So they were malpositioned and died in the egg. One hatched since I made it in time to open a hole around its beak more. I notice another one broke a hole but died because I left it alone. It may have drowned by the looks of it?

That's exactly what I mean, we're just here to help you achieve your goal.. I don't mean to indicate any problems and sorry if I do sound that way, I'm only looking looking for clues in the details.

My favorite hatching resource says malpos are caused by..

"• Eggs incubated with the small end up • Inadequate turning • Temperatures during incubation high or low • Humidity high • Old flock • Eggs too big • Nutritional deficiencies, particularly vitamins A and B12 • Poor transport and storage conditions"

Were these eggs fresh from your own flock or shipped?

What was your humidity.. If water was pouring out the bottom, it was too high. Too high humidity allows the embryo to grow to large to turn into position for hatching. Did you verify the turner was indeed working?

Those eggs that did pip.. was it on day 21?

So, I did get my highest hatch rates hand turning and it's not a bad idea! BUT, I'm not convinced the turner was the problem UNLESS it got unplugged like mine has in the past or was not functioning in the first place.

I would want to verify temperature and humidity accuracy of the read outs if that' all that's being relied on.

Noting that water coming out the bottom sounds like user error over filling it.. I've done it in my other brand styro bator, which I actually like and prefer.

Ultimately, it could be a combination of things that took place. That's why these questions are important... say for example were diagnosing malpo on shipped eggs, the answer could be that obvious.

Specific reasons according to what day the embryo quit start on page 51 with malpos on page 53 of the following link..

https://www.hubbardbreeders.com/media/incubation_guideen__053407700_1525_26062017.pdf

I'm sorry you've struggled with your prior hatch and hope you best chick adventures lie ahead!

 

[BelovedBirds]

maybe yours is a just a dud? Sorry for your poor hatch rate

Agghhh it’s been such a dud purchase. Water pours out the bottom at times, and there’s instances where it’s freezing and says otherwise. I’m glad yours is working out well though! Congrats to you and your little guys

what you are describing is normal, chicks filling the bottom half of the egg, what you're actually saying is that they were all malpositioned, heads at the narrow end, right?

 

[Oldegarlicshnapp]

they were all malpositioned, heads at the narrow end, right?

Yep

 

[Oldegarlicshnapp]

Is this different than what you saw with your eggs?

Yeah, the biggest issue was humidity. I let it get too high, so the air cell didn’t develop accordingly. They pipped internally and two were able to make a hole. They didn’t pip in the air cell though, since for some reason they all grew away from it.
I read somewhere that artificial incubation is a reason for malposition, so that’s why I was targeting the turner. I’d love to know why malposition happens though, this is all very interesting

 

[NatJ]

Yeah, the biggest issue was humidity. I let it get too high, so the air cell didn’t develop accordingly. They pipped internally and two were able to make a hole. They didn’t pip in the air cell though, since for some reason they all grew away from it.

I would sort out the humidity as the first step, because you know it was wrong.
With a bigger air cell and a smaller chick, it has more room to get in the right position.
So fixing the humidity has a chance of fixing the position issue as well.

I read somewhere that artificial incubation is a reason for malposition, so that’s why I was targeting the turner. I’d love to know why malposition happens though, this is all very interesting

Artificial incubation would mean any use of an incubator, rather than a hen, so there are many possible differences:

temperature higher or lower
humidity higher or lower
turning (hand, automatic, not turning during lockdown)
person doesn't cluck to the chicks to encourage their efforts
whether the eggs are allowed to cool for a bit each day (hen gets off to eat & drink)
etc.

Even if artificial incubation causes more malpositions than incubating under a hen, whoever wrote that was not very helpful for figuring out the details!