Do you feed corn?

[Organics North]

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Interesting prospective.... Very well written argumentation from the PRO GMO side of the isle. ........Of course......................I have to admit I find this post abrasive, Like all non GMO crops are saturated in chemicals and GMO crops are not!!

I have always consider Alfalfa a "low intensity" chemical use crop. We rarely if ever, put anything on Alfalfa. Know of course that was growing Alfalfa on prime deep sandy loam without any irrigation in south central Wisconsin. Maybe if it is grown on marginal soil, then it might be more susceptible to bugs.?? (Which brings up another issue of mine, urban sprawl and the "planting" of houses on prime farm land.. Causing us to have to farm poor or marginal soils, which require the use of more chemicals!) argggh.

If you want to read about "current" University recommended cultural practices for non-organic production of alternative crops such as sunflowers and flax check this link out.

http://corn.agronomy.wisc.edu/Crops/Sunflower.aspx
For those that don't want to read it their are NO approved chemicals to repel birds in todays day and age.

Respectfully,
ON

 

[bibliophile birds]

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this is the argument i have the most experience with and, therefore, the biggest problem with. i'm a Cultural Anthropologist and my area of "expertise" is socially sustainable development, mostly in 3rd world countries directly following disaster (i'm hoping to get to Haiti once the initial rescue and stabilization ends). Big Ag (just like Big Pharma) works very, very hard to convince us that what they are doing is feeding the world and saving lives. this, sadly, is almost a complete fiction. the key term to know: structural adjustments.

when the US starts "trading" with poor countries, the poorer classes usually suffer MORE than before we traded with them. case in point: when Jamaica needed aide, they turned to the US, the IMF, and the World Bank. the US would only give aide to Jamaica if they opened their markets to "free trade" with us- that meant no import tax on American products but Jamaican products coming into the US still had tariffs. they then forced Jamaica to set up "Tax Free" zones where American companies could build factories without paying taxes to Jamaica and those products were viewed as American so they didn't get the import tariffs coming back into this country.

correlation to farming: one aspect of Jamaican agriculture that was fairly stable was the diary industry. we're talking about village level diary operations, where a man has a few cows and sells milk to his neighbors, all the way up to conglomerate diary companies. the US flooded the Jamaican market with extremely cheap milk powder and these Jamaican dairies couldn't compete- and they certainly couldn't sell their milk to the US. they were literally pouring perfectly good milk into ditches or being forced to give it away. cows have to be milked after all.

so all these dairy farmers are almost instantly put out of business. where do they end up going for work? the American factories in the Tax Free Zone (most notably, Fruit of the Loom). they are paid very low wages for long hours of work to make products that they can't afford to purchase. an endless cycle begins where Jamaica is pushed further into poverty the more the US "helps" them out.

trust me, industrial agriculture does not feed the poor (at least outside of the US). it destroys a people's ability to determine their own destiny and gives them no hope of something better. the solution, one that we've been seeing actually work for 30 years now, is revitalizing local communities and economies by allowing people to feed themselves. it works, but there are insane road blocks- Big Ag has many powerful friends.

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immensely. so many things are wrong with our system. for me, the biggest problem is that farmers are not important to the industrial machine. they are replaceable cogs. farmers ought to be the foundation of a healthy economy and a healthy nation. instead, they are forced to be part of this huge industrial complex that means we are growing corn, turning it into everything under the sun (including cat litter now- how are people starving when we have enough corn to make cat litter out of it?), shipping it overseas and then buying more of it from other countries? it's because corn is a commodity and you make the most money off a commodity by moving it around a lot.

i know that when i rail about "the system" that it probably comes across as me hating the farmers who are a part of this cycle. i don't. really and truly don't. they are being manipulated just as much as anyone else but their livelihoods depend on it. that is a terrible place to be stuck in. i just can't respect or appreciate a system that makes corporations insanely wealthy while pushing it's most valuable employees (and the environment and the world) to the brink.

 

[Organics North]

Thank you Bibliophile birds!
A rebuttal vastly superior to anything I could have wrote.

jhm47, again wow! great posts!

A good intellectual debate is highly stimulating and entertaining....

I really have to get off byc and get some work done!
(Self employment is challenging, easy to get side tracked!!!)
ON

 

[Lazy J Farms Feed & Hay]

Okay folks, I have been working to formulate a 'non-gmo' feed that contains no corn or soybean products. The problem we are facing is the LOW energy content when compared to that of a 'normal' ration. I can't share numbers but it appears that feed intake would increase in the range of 10 to 35% to maintain energy intake to meet the hen's needs.

The increased feed intake coupled with an increase in price of the diet will be result in a substantial increase in feeding cost of the hen.

I will keep working on it. Hopefully I will have a finalized product for sale in the next few weeks.

Jim

 

[BlackBart]

Lazy J Farms Feed & Hay :

Okay folks, I have been working to formulate a 'non-gmo' feed that contains no corn or soybean products. The problem we are facing is the LOW energy content when compared to that of a 'normal' ration. I can't share numbers but it appears that feed intake would increase in the range of 10 to 35% to maintain energy intake to meet the hen's needs.

The increased feed intake coupled with an increase in price of the diet will be result in a substantial increase in feeding cost of the hen.

I will keep working on it. Hopefully I will have a finalized product for sale in the next few weeks.

Jim

I would be very interested to hear what you have come up with. A alternative to soy would be great.

Price always comes down to the main factor in what people buy. If the cost of feed goes up then the cost of eggs goes up and it turns into a domino effect. Commercial egg producers can sell eggs for $1.99 per dozen they have the bulk buying power and rebates from the government. When money if tight the average hard working person will buy what is cheaper despite the nutritional quality.

One fellow I know feeds organic. It is much more expensive and to make a small profit he must sell his eggs for $4.50 dozen. He is lucky to be able to market them is a wealthy neighbourhood.

Hen Scratch has increased steadily in the past few years. I was told it was due to the cost of corn..........floods, crop failures etc. ?????? I would guess that is why they are adding soy oil, much cheaper way to provide protein.​

 

[chicknmania]

WE have had two banty roosters die from what we were pretty sure was some type of organ failure this winter. And two hens last summer. We do feed cracked corn sometimes, but not sure if it's Monsanto. Will have to check that out. Thanks for the heads up.

 

[Lazy J Farms Feed & Hay]

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Soy oil is a source of fat for energy, it contains NO protein.

 

[CARS]

Lazy J Farms Feed & Hay :

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Soy oil is a source of fat for energy, it contains NO protein.

But soy meal does, right? (been hearing too many opinions and I don't know what is true anymore

)​

 

[Teach97]

yes soy meal is a protein source...I would guess a % but it is easy to find

 

[bibliophile birds]

Lazy J Farms Feed & Hay :

Okay folks, I have been working to formulate a 'non-gmo' feed that contains no corn or soybean products. The problem we are facing is the LOW energy content when compared to that of a 'normal' ration. I can't share numbers but it appears that feed intake would increase in the range of 10 to 35% to maintain energy intake to meet the hen's needs.

The increased feed intake coupled with an increase in price of the diet will be result in a substantial increase in feeding cost of the hen.

I will keep working on it. Hopefully I will have a finalized product for sale in the next few weeks.

Jim

thank you. it takes individual feed producers, like you, to do this kind of leg work. regardless of what comes out of it, feed-wise, we will all be a little bit more informed for it.

i would be extremely interested to hear what you find. the organic feed i buy is non-GMO, of course, and i've assumed that the price increase was strictly because of it's organic status. i'd love to know the cost of finding non-GMO ingredients that aren't organic. i'd say they are pretty scarce. as i said previously, it does contain some corn but not as much as conventional feed.

if you could, i'm sure we'd all be very interested to hear what ingredients you are looking into. you don't have to give us % or anything, but a working ingredient list would be most informative.

eta: my feed has peas as the main ingredient and they consume it a lot slower than when i fed conventional corn-based feed (which meant that the increased price was well worth it). can you go into any details about what makes the feed intake increase with the non-GMO formula you are working on? the science of poultry nutrition is infinity fascinating to me.​