Docking Tails (dogs- want your oppinon).

[monarc23]

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wow ninja yeah i agree! If someoen would have asked me if your dog had a full tail or not i would have probably most likely said "that's a full tail duh!" LOL! So since it isn't a full tail, I see why you'd be completley comfortable with them fully accepting a nice long tail in show!

I hpoe you're right about docking becoming more obsolete here in the US, it'd be nice. I mean i feel people should have the right to do what they want with their dogs (well not whatever they want but you know what I mean) but it would be nice for docked breeds to be accepted more here WITH tails.

 

[monarc23]

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Atleast you do it while sympathising with the pup/dog in question, I'm sure you do your best to make them comfortable in an uncomfortable situation. I never kenw that about this breed interesting!

 

[monarc23]

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This is some really, really sensible logic. I'm pondering our different experiences with dewclaw injuries, too, since your dogs almost certainly "work" more than mine. Mine play hard, and a few have hunted, but none have done the rough work that is SAR.

I wonder if it has to do with how low-set or high-set the front dewclaws are? Because when I read that part of your post, it occurred to me that in the dogs I've had with dewclaw issues, the dewclaws have been on the low side. (It's an easy thing to notice in poodles, since we shave the feet/ankles regularly.) I had one standard whose left front dewclaw was repeatedly torn. It would grow back, each time gnarlier and more misshapen than the last. Once healed, it didn't cause him any pain, but it would invariably get injured again.

And I HAVE seen front dewclaws "gripping" big meaty bones...they don't seem to be able to do a lot, but you can definitely see them flexing and functioning. Come to think of it, that's the only time I've seen them in use! I love everything about watching dogs work over big, meaty bones...the muscles all the way down both sides of their spines to their tails get a workout!

another meaty bone feeder! YAY TO YOU!

I agree it's awesome, esp the neckworkout they get! Dont see that when only eating kibble. (i feed kibble, but suppliment--can't relaly afford to go full what i'd like) LOL!

 

[ninjapoodles]

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And this is the problem with show-quality pups. You don't want to handicap the new owners right out of the gate and make it harder for them to finish their dogs. I would never, ever dock the tail of an older dog, because it would be major surgery. I couldn't justify the risk of general anesthesia for something like that. So we just go ahead and do them all, since there's no way of knowing at birth who will and won't be shown. If we were just breeding pets only, we wouldn't do tails. But then, we also wouldn't breed "pets only." All our dogs are loved pets, of course, but we don't breed simply to supply a demand for pets.

 

[monarc23]

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And this is the problem with show-quality pups. You don't want to handicap the new owners right out of the gate and make it harder for them to finish their dogs. I would never, ever dock the tail of an older dog, because it would be major surgery. I couldn't justify the risk of general anesthesia for something like that. So we just go ahead and do them all, since there's no way of knowing at birth who will and won't be shown. If we were just breeding pets only, we wouldn't do tails. But then, we also wouldn't breed "pets only." All our dogs are loved pets, of course, but we don't breed simply to supply a demand for pets.

^^ I'm personally breeding for a working cocker line, but I'm realistically knowing that most that I don't keep myself will go to pet homes...but i have high hopes to educate people on their great hunting abilities! My two are awesome! <---they are still in training but they've already prooven their worth.<---Hence the reason I got into coturnix quails

 

[ninjapoodles]

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Yeah, compare that dog with our youngest one, whose tail was docked WAAAAY too short:

She was purchased as a working water retriever, from breeders whose primary breed is Labs, folks who only recently added poodles to their breeding program (they do NOT breed "Labradoodles," *shudder* but do breed both Labs and poodles) after training a few for the field. They had never docked puppies before, so weren't sure how to do it. Oh, well...it doesn't affect her working ability, but it's still a shame. She's a beautiful dog.

 

[Verboten]

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+1.
This has always made a lot of sense to me, they use their tail as a counterbalance just like a house cat (or greater cat.)

Previously some have also expressed their strong feelings against removing parts (combs and wattles) of chickens because of outdated/outmoded practices. - Perhaps someday this view of keeping animals whole could be extended to humans as well.

 

[ninjapoodles]

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I missed this the first time around, and now I'm curious! How in the world were tails docked on puppies by the vet you worked for that was "barbaric?" We've always done our own, and there is never so much as a drop of blood or any crying! The ones I've seen that have been done by vets usually have stitches in the end of the tail, so some vets must do something differently than what I'm used to and was taught by other breeders. Ours don't require stitches.

 

[ninjapoodles]

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What do I think?

I think they still ARE retrieving water dogs. Where did you get the idea that they aren't, or that they've had the instinct "bred out of them?" Never mind, I know where you got the idea, and it's not your fault.

Just because a breed becomes popular as a pet, and is kept (and/or shown) by many people who do not use it for its original intended purpose, does not mean that the dogs no longer have the instinct or ability to perform that task.

Poodles were actually originally canine multi-taskers, bred and developed as an "everyman's" dog...in other words, they weren't specialized retrievers for wealthy folks who hunted for sport, but rather jacks-of-all-trades for people who were putting food on the table for their families. They also helped earn money for many owners, through pursuits as varied as truffle-hunting and street-performing.

Sorry to go OT, but hey...could I help it? Now, what do you think?

 

[dutchhollow]

Hunting dogs that work in heavy cover with long tails very often end up with a bloody mess at the end, it won't heal because every time the dog wags it bangs it again, have to wrap it to hunt, usually end up with a partial amp. later in life. Look around the net at pics of english pointers (not show dogs) most tail ends are a mess. I have never seen or heard a 'barbaric' docking, at most a yip and it is over, they are nursing again before they know it.
It is a personal decision, but in hunting breeds it is not one of vanity.