Does anyone else think anything over 90* is excessive, not necessary?

[Blooie]

I always understood those old recommendations to be the temperature right by the heat lamp, with the rest of the brooder cooler. (My sources: a selection of hatchery websites, state cooperative extension sites, and books from several decades ago that were based on such guidelines.)

Using a heat lamp to warm just one area, while the rest of the brooder is cooler, lets the chicks move back and forth between cooler and warmer areas, similar to what your heating pad allows.

But that requires quite a bit of space, more than most people are willing to provide in their house (or even in some chicken coops!)

I do 100% understand what you’re saying, and for most setups you’re absolutely right, that’s about all most folks can do. But with a heat lamp the “cooler side” of the brooder isn’t really much cooler. It’s still being heated, you know? Unless the brooder is the size of some bedrooms, the brooder temps away from the heat lamp still won’t get down to ambient temperatures. Folks who brood chicks in a bathroom, with the heat lamp and chicks in the bathtub, usually say that they were glad to get them outside because the bathroom (the entire bathroom) was way too warm. (@bruceha2000, I’m talking about you, for one! ) So where’s the “cooler area”?

When my chicks move out from under Mama Heating Pad, their “cooler area” is definitely way cooler. It’s truly the ambient temperature in the rest of the brooder, as low as 20-30 degrees. They spend most of their time out there, content and growing and feathering out quickly. And their brooder isn’t huge, as you can see. These are Silkie chicks at just a few days old. The ambient temperature was 29 degrees.

 

[NatJ]

But with a heat lamp the “cooler side” of the brooder isn’t really much cooler. It’s still being heated, you know? Unless the brooder is the size of some bedrooms, the brooder temps away from the heat lamp still won’t get down to ambient temperatures.

When I brood with a heat lamp in my garage or outdoors, with a "brooder" at least 4 by 6 feet, there is plenty of cooler area. (That 4x6 feet is the space the chicks have, with the entire garage being bigger, or the entire outdoors being much bigger.) Yes, the chicks DO have ambient temperatures for at least 1/3 of the brooder the way I do it.

In a house, with a small brooder, yes it is a problem.

Folks who brood chicks in a bathroom, with the heat lamp and chicks in the bathtub, usually say that they were glad to get them outside because the bathroom (the entire bathroom) was way too warm. (@bruceha2000, I’m talking about you, for one! ) So where’s the “cooler area”?

Unplugging the heat lamp when the chicks no longer need it, or using a smaller bulb in the first place, are two possible solutions. And the chicks "no longer need it" at a young age if they are in a heated house.

When my chicks move out from under Mama Heating Pad, their “cooler area” is definitely way cooler. It’s truly the ambient temperature in the rest of the brooder, as low as 20-30 degrees. They spend most of their time out there, content and growing and feathering out quickly. And their brooder isn’t huge, as you can see. These are Silkie chicks at just a few days old. The ambient temperature was 29 degrees.

I agree, if the brooder area is small, your heating pad cave is much better than a heat lamp.

 

[3KillerBs]

Unless the brooder is the size of some bedrooms, the brooder temps away from the heat lamp still won’t get down to ambient temperatures.

I see that more as a problem with people using too high a wattage of bulb and or too small a brooder than an inherent problem with the heat lamps themselves.

I went as low as 60watts in my brooder on nights that were just a bit too cool to go without heat.

My Brooder: https://www.backyardchickens.com/articles/run-to-outdoor-brooder-conversion.76634/

If someone is using a tiny plastic tote, then there's probably no bulb small enough and an alternative heat source will have to be found, but I still think that a medical heating pad run for 4-6 weeks solid is no safer than a properly-sized and properly set-up heat lamp.

 

[SandyRiverChick]

I have found that chicks do a much better job of deciding what they need than we do. I use Mama Heating Pad exclusively, and I start my chicks outdoors when our springtime chick season temps are in the 20s, dropping into the teens. When I raised my first chicks using it, I started the Mama Heating Pad thread just to document what I was doing, why I was doing it, what I learned, what I modified, and how things went. I didn’t start out to “teach” anything. Those chicks were in the house much longer than I planned when hubby had emergency surgery and we were delayed in setting up the outdoor brooder pen.

Early on in the thread, @azygous asked me what the temperature was under the cave. Shoot, I didn’t know. I’d never measured it. All I knew what that I had happy, thriving chicks that explored, played King of the Mountain on top of MHP, slept quietly straight through the night, and seemed very happy and healthy to me. Well, the temperature on the floor of the heating pad cave was something like 82.5, if I recall, and the room they were in was 69 degrees. Holy smokes!! According to the “experts” my chicks should have been dead. They’d already been living with MHP for over a week and were far from dead. They knew exactly what they needed, when they needed it, and how to get it.

Do I think the recommended temperatures for chicks are overstated? Absolutely!! In fact, I’ll stick my neck out and go one step farther and say that that old 95 the first week, 90 the second, etc., etc., is downright ridiculous and so stressful to new chick owners who just can’t seem to fine-tune that heat lamp. After that first batch went outside to live at about 11 days old, I was amazed that even with ambient temps at that time in the 30s, they behaved exactly as they had in the house. They ducked under MHP for a quick warm-up, or if they got spooked, for a quick catnap, or as the sun set to bed down for the night. That’s when I realized that if a 2 pound hen can successfully raise her broods of chicks outdoors even when winter winds were howling and snow was falling, and do it without charts, experts, books, or websites telling her she’s doing it all wrong, why do we do it so differently and think we’re doing it better? She doesn’t heat their entire environment. She doesn’t have night lights under her wings. She doesn’t see to it that they eat 24/7.

And by the way, while I have no scientific proof, I believe that the 2 factors of overheating and constant eating are the leading causes of pasty butt in chicks. With the light on all the time with no respite, they are constantly close to dehydration. Those are pretty tiny little bodies and they can’t take in as much water as they’re losing to heat. And being awake all night long, what else is there to do but eat? Their little digestive systems are just as immature as their feather growth or any of their other systems. Yet there they are, overloading those still-developing digestive systems with food that they really don’t need and haven’t completely digested before they’re eating again. Under a broody hen, they’d eat what they need during the day, and when they went to sleep at night - in pitch darkness - those little crops and tummies have time to digest what they’ve eaten slowly, as nature intended. When the sun comes up they are cleaned out and ready to take in what they need for growth and nourishment without digestive overload.

That’s my story and I’m sticking to it! Years of successfully brooding batch after batch of chicks outdoors with no heat lamps, no 90 degree requirements, and no exposure to any kind of artificial lights, in temperatures that make experts cringe, and with only 3 cases of pasty butt (those 3 chicks came to us with pasty butt…two or 3 cleanups and it was over) isn’t exactly scientific evidence, but experience has to count for something.

View attachment 2975361

Oh wow Blooie the legend! I actually feel honored that you to took the time to write such a great response to my question! Your posts and advice have been incredibly valuable to me over the many years I've been raising chickens! You're my chicken mentor I know that I can always count on the mommy hut thread you started years ago, as a refresher and confidence builder when I'm getting ready for new additions. It's hard to explain the difference in "chick happiness and health," to people who are still using only heat lamps but I know it's real. I have NEVER had a case of pasty butt or any other health issue and I just giggle at how silly, curious and content they appear and it just makes so much sense. They have this wonderful warm mom to protect them. Over the years I've perfected my mommy hut (I don't use the new plates, I use the same old heating pad on a wire frame that I built in 2016 when I read the knowledge share from you.) I'll have to post a pic of it soon. I've made the sides sort of curl up inside like a wing! That's because the first year my cover was to loose and one baby scared me when she got way up in there. Well duh, she was just wanting some mommy wing warmth. Anyhow, I'm ready to roll with some newbies next week and so appreciative to you for my tried and true process for healthy, happy chicks!! Thank you so much!

 

[NatJ]

It's hard to explain the difference in "chick happiness and health," to people who are still using only heat lamps but I know it's real.

Have you raised chicks with broody hens?
Have you raised chicks with heat lamps?
If so, how do you think either of them compares?

I have not used a heating pad cave, but I have raised chicks with broody hens and with a heat lamp. I do NOT see a difference in how active or how "happy" the chicks are.

I have NEVER had a case of pasty butt or any other health issue...

How many chicks have you raised this way?

I have raised hundreds of chicks with heat lamps, over a period of many years.

I have cleaned some poopy butts, but never very many or very bad. It's always cleared up by the time the chicks are a few days old (once they are over the stress of having been shipped.)

With shipped chicks, once they are past the first 24 hours, I usually have ZERO fatalities from any cause. (Deaths in the first 24 hours after arrival are probably due to shipping stress, not heat source, so that's why I'm not counting them.)

I have never seen a case of coccidiosis or any other illness in my chicks.

I see that more as a problem with people using too high a wattage of bulb and or too small a brooder than an inherent problem with the heat lamps themselves.

I agree. Heat lamps, used properly, work very well.
Heat lamps, used wrong, cause problems.

 

[3KillerBs]

I agree. Heat lamps, used properly, work very well.
Heat lamps, used wrong, cause problems.

Like any other tool.

 

[rosemarythyme]

Folks who brood chicks in a bathroom, with the heat lamp and chicks in the bathtub, usually say that they were glad to get them outside because the bathroom (the entire bathroom) was way too warm.

I had that issue first time I brooded, with that exact set up. The tub was fine as a brooder, but the lamp with the default 250W bulb made the entire bathroom uncomfortably hot. I could smell the bulb burning. I switched to a lower wattage bulb, but it was still very difficult to provide a cooler area within the tub.

Subsequent batches of chicks have been brooded outside with the MHP and while I can't claim the chicks were "happier" or whatnot, it sure was a lot easier on me, and at least I didn't have to worry about setting the bathroom on fire.

 

[Blooie]

Oh wow Blooie the legend! I actually feel honored that you to took the time to write such a great response to my question! Your posts and advice have been incredibly valuable to me over the many years I've been raising chickens! You're my chicken mentor I know that I can always count on the mommy hut thread you started years ago, as a refresher and confidence builder when I'm getting ready for new additions. It's hard to explain the difference in "chick happiness and health," to people who are still using only heat lamps but I know it's real. I have NEVER had a case of pasty butt or any other health issue and I just giggle at how silly, curious and content they appear and it just makes so much sense. They have this wonderful warm mom to protect them. Over the years I've perfected my mommy hut (I don't use the new plates, I use the same old heating pad on a wire frame that I built in 2016 when I read the knowledge share from you.) I'll have to post a pic of it soon. I've made the sides sort of curl up inside like a wing! That's because the first year my cover was to loose and one baby scared me when she got way up in there. Well duh, she was just wanting some mommy wing warmth. Anyhow, I'm ready to roll with some newbies next week and so appreciative to you for my tried and true process for healthy, happy chicks!! Thank you so much!

I’m so glad you found the thread useful, but the actual credit must go to Beekissed and Patrice Lopatin, who gave me the idea. All I did was put the information in one place as I documented my journey into this method. I thank you so much for the kind words!

Have you raised chicks with broody hens?
Have you raised chicks with heat lamps?
If so, how do you think either of them compares?

I have not used a heating pad cave, but I have raised chicks with broody hens and with a heat lamp.I do NOT see a difference in how active or how "happy" the chicks are.


How many chicks have you raised this way?

I have raised hundreds of chicks with heat lamps, over a period of many years.

I have cleaned some poopy butts, but never very many or very bad. It's always cleared up by the time the chicks are a few days old (once they are over the stress of having been shipped.)

With shipped chicks, once they are past the first 24 hours, I usually have ZERO fatalities from any cause. (Deaths in the first 24 hours after arrival are probably due to shipping stress, not heat source, so that's why I'm not counting them.)

I have never seen a case of coccidiosis or any other illness in my chicks.


I agree. Heat lamps, used properly, work very well.
Heat lamps, used wrong, cause problems.

I can’t speak for her, but I‘ve raised every batch except my first ones (those were raised using the conventional heat lamp in the house method) using Mama Heating Pad. I lost 6 out of 20. Yes, I’ve raised chicks under a broody. And yes, I’ve raised chicks under a heat lamp. And yes, I’ve compared. Mama Heating Pad comes closer to a broody hen raising them than any method I’ve ever heard of. As I’ve said, the only real difference is that MHP stays in one place. And I’ve lost zero out of over a hundred.

I think by happier chicks she echoes what I have personally observed….chicks who have a warm, dark, safe place to escape percieved danger end up being more confident and calm because they are being allowed to use their instincts to hide from threats. It’s no different with a broody hen. In the typical brooder box with a bright light over them, where can they go if they get spooked? Nowhere. All they can do is run around the perimeter of the box in panic. They’ll try to hide under the feeder, the waterer, each other, and eventually they just stop where they are, usually piled in a corner. They don’t learn to separate real danger from perceived danger, so everything becomes ‘real danger’. If they are provided places to hide in a typical brooder, that’s great. But most conventional brooders don’t allow for that. (I’m not saying yours doesn’t, I’m saying most don’t.) On the other hand, I’ve seen chicks getting spooked, cheeping at the top of their lungs, then dashing under Mama Heating Pad. Immediately the distressed cheeping stops, and within a few minutes they are peeking out to check if the coast is clear. That’s self-calming, and they do it exactly the same under MHP as they do under a broody hen. That means calm, confident birds.

Look, I did not post to start a heat lamp vs heating pad argument. I’ve been bashed for that more times than I care to admit, even when just posting an innocent response to direct questions about using the heating pad. @SandyRiverChick asked a question in her original post, and I answered it with my own personal experiences. I’m certainly not unwilling to acknowledge that heat lamps have been around a long time and have been used quite successfully to raise millions of chicks over the decades. And I‘m not naive enough to think for one minute that MHP is the only way to raise them, or to try to convince anyone that they just have to use it. I use it. I trust it. I love watching chicks acting 100% natural with it. I like it for so many reasons, prime among them being the almost perfect imitation of a broody hen. And hundreds and hundreds of other people use it and like it too. There’s room in the chicken world for both camps. I’d no more be able to talk you into using a heating pad than you would be able to talk me into a heat lamp, and that’s okay.

I haven’t had pasty butt in any batch of chicks I’ve raised either, except those three who came home from the feed store with it. Like you, a couple of cleanups and we were done with it. Nor have I ever had coccidiosis in any of my chicks. I’ve lost a few to shipping stress but never to any heat-related illnesses. So our experiences, although vastly different in raising methods, mirror each other. I will say that never have I seen pasty butt in broody raised chicks, so that’s one more reason I try to mimic her as closely as humanly possible.

Like any other tool.

Exactly!!

 

[NatJ]

I can’t speak for her, but I‘ve raised every batch except my first ones (those were raised using the conventional heat lamp in the house method) using Mama Heating Pad. I lost 6 out of 20. Yes, I’ve raised chicks under a broody. And yes, I’ve raised chicks under a heat lamp. And yes, I’ve compared. Mama Heating Pad comes closer to a broody hen raising them than any method I’ve ever heard of. As I’ve said, the only real difference is that MHP stays in one place. And I’ve lost zero out of over a hundred.

I think by happier chicks she echoes what I have personally observed….chicks who have a warm, dark, safe place to escape percieved danger end up being more confident and calm because they are being allowed to use their instincts to hide from threats. It’s no different with a broody hen. In the typical brooder box with a bright light over them, where can they go if they get spooked? Nowhere. All they can do is run around the perimeter of the box in panic. They’ll try to hide under the feeder, the waterer, each other, and eventually they just stop where they are, usually piled in a corner. They don’t learn to separate real danger from perceived danger, so everything becomes ‘real danger’. If they are provided places to hide in a typical brooder, that’s great. But most conventional brooders don’t allow for that. (I’m not saying yours doesn’t, I’m saying most don’t.) On the other hand, I’ve seen chicks getting spooked, cheeping at the top of their lungs, then dashing under Mama Heating Pad. Immediately the distressed cheeping stops, and within a few minutes they are peeking out to check if the coast is clear. That’s self-calming, and they do it exactly the same under MHP as they do under a broody hen. That means calm, confident birds.

Thank you. That comparison is quite helpful.

Look, I did not post to start a heat lamp vs heating pad argument. I’ve been bashed for that more times than I care to admit, even when just posting an innocent response to direct questions about using the heating pad. @SandyRiverChick asked a question in her original post, and I answered it with my own personal experiences. I’m certainly not unwilling to acknowledge that heat lamps have been around a long time and have been used quite successfully to raise millions of chicks over the decades. And I‘m not naive enough to think for one minute that MHP is the only way to raise them, or to try to convince anyone that they just have to use it.

Good points.

I agree with you that both methods can work well.

I just have problems when people say (or imply) that heat lamps are ALWAYS a problem.

I’d no more be able to talk you into using a heating pad than you would be able to talk me into a heat lamp, and that’s okay.

I haven’t had pasty butt in any batch of chicks I’ve raised either, except those three who came home from the feed store with it. Like you, a couple of cleanups and we were done with it. Nor have I ever had coccidiosis in any of my chicks. I’ve lost a few to shipping stress but never to any heat-related illnesses. So our experiences, although vastly different in raising methods, mirror each other.

I suppose your and my equally good results are good evidence that either method can work very well

 

[yakitori]

Personally I prefer chicks to be sleeping at night like they do under the broody. That's probably my sole reason for using a heating pad instead of a heat lamp. Also I've never raised more than 10 chicks at once, so a heating pad was always more energy efficient for my particular needs.

On day 3 of raising yet another little batch of quails currently and it's about 100 in the tiny cardboard heated cave I made from a shipping box, while 60ish outside. They seem happy, and that's all that matters