Does anyone have children with Aspergers?

[Beekissed]

From what I understand about this type of autism, the part of the brain that deals with self-analysis and adjustment of behavior in the social learning process is underdeveloped~meaning that it isn't just simple denial for these Aspies because they don't have the same computer chip that we do. They CANNOT see what you see about their behaviors because they are unable to process it normally.

I had the hardest time grasping that and not thinking of my son(and my father, we now see from the clinical symptom description that he had this also)as a hard-head. He's a sweet and good boy but he cannot see what we notice about the things he does and he doesn't remember those parts of his childhood. His memories of that time are often skewed because he didn't process the events the same as everyone else did.

The good news is that my boy's Aspie is not as severe as some and he is slowly learning and adapting to read the social indicators of others around him by watching how THEY react to the situation and adapting his response to fit. They CAN learn, thank the good Lord...and I think that is precisely why my son is doing so well, because he is a Christian also and has the desire to show love to others. He has the desire to improve and do better with his relationships with others due to a willingness to please God. He only has the occasional outburst of increased anxiety and other Aspie symptoms now and they are far and few between, often triggered by increased stress in his life.

 

[zzGypsy]

From what I understand about this type of autism, the part of the brain that deals with self-analysis and adjustment of behavior in the social learning process is underdeveloped~meaning that it isn't just simple denial for these Aspies because they don't have the same computer chip that we do. They CANNOT see what you see about their behaviors because they are unable to process it normally.

I had the hardest time grasping that and not thinking of my son(and my father, we now see from the clinical symptom description that he had this also)as a hard-head. He's a sweet and good boy but he cannot see what we notice about the things he does and he doesn't remember those parts of his childhood. His memories of that time are often skewed because he didn't process the events the same as everyone else did.

The good news is that my boy's Aspie is not as severe as some and he is slowly learning and adapting to read the social indicators of others around him by watching how THEY react to the situation and adapting his response to fit. They CAN learn, thank the good Lord...and I think that is precisely why my son is doing so well, because he is a Christian also and has the desire to show love to others. He has the desire to improve and do better with his relationships with others due to a willingness to please God. He only has the occasional outburst of increased anxiety and other Aspie symptoms now and they are far and few between, often triggered by increased stress in his life.

I wrote up a whole thing on what that's like from the inside of being Aspie (because I am one)... and then my computer gliched and it vanished.

I would say this is kinda close:

Quote:
but misses the mark a little on what actually happens inside our experience and what works to change that.

if you're interested in some thoughts on what's happening on the inside, let me know and I'll re-write it again and post it.

 

[Beekissed]

I would love to hear what it's like from the inside, Gypsy! I've often wondered just how his thought processes occur because they are so different than are ours.

Not bad, just very different. When he was younger it was more pronounced in his verbal patterns and mannerisms but now, as an adult, it comes across more in his "take" on any given situation. As time went along we started to realize that Joel didn't quite see/feel the same things we did in the exact same situation(of course, none of us do...but his were way different).

Again..not bad..just different. I love him dearly and his Aspie tendencies are part of what makes him a wonderful person and they only become a problem in certain situations~and we are starting to understand what triggers them and how to avoid the worst ones.

 

[zzGypsy]

I would love to hear what it's like from the inside, Gypsy! I've often wondered just how his thought processes occur because they are so different than are ours.

Not bad, just very different. When he was younger it was more pronounced in his verbal patterns and mannerisms but now, as an adult, it comes across more in his "take" on any given situation. As time went along we started to realize that Joel didn't quite see/feel the same things we did in the exact same situation(of course, none of us do...but his were way different).

Again..not bad..just different. I love him dearly and his Aspie tendencies are part of what makes him a wonderful person and they only become a problem in certain situations~and we are starting to understand what triggers them and how to avoid the worst ones.

ok, here goes.keep in mind there's wide variability in the constelation of apsie traits and function/non-function, and your son's brain may not be like mine in some respects. his processing may be different. however I will say that my experience strongly overlaps with what I've read from other aspies, so this is a good place to start.

I grew up when there wasn't a term for what's different about my brain, much less a method for working for it, so my process is entirely based on having struggled through this on my own, what I've learned that works, and what doesn't. your son's process will be his own as well, but I expect it can be considerably easier if he's got some support from the outside for understanding how things work, helping him discover his processes, and some guidance towards skills he can try and may be able to use.

re: not able to observe their own behaviors and self analyze, I'd say no, not correct exactly. I think there are 2 factors:
1) we don't percieve the same things, or in the same detail, although much of that is trainable if you know where the gap is.
2) we don't care about some of the same things other folks do, or understand why those things are important to other people.
we are quite capable of observing ourselves, and learning and changing, however, we might need a lot of skills training in observation, a clear set of rules for using what we observe, and we have to have some reason to attach to the particular behavior or issue to be worked on.

you see it's not that we can't observe, we can, and in excruciating detail. it's just not the same stuff most people observe. things like emotional cues, body language, facial expression, social rituals... those are often what we don't see. it's like we're colorblind to those... either we can't detect the detail, or we lump different stuff together, or we fail to register it as important. I think of it as being a bit emotion-blind. there is stuff going on there that everyone else gets that we simply aren't aware of. more on what to do with that below.

the good news is we are generally
1) smart
2) voracious learners, if we're interested in something
3) persistant problem solvers, if it matters to us
4) entirely trainable if you can discover the method that works for us, and get us interested in that particular territory
5) have a high standard for success and a strong desire for mastery of skills and knowledge, if you can engage it.

<posting now... more in the next post>

 

[Beekissed]

I agree! Thanks for explaining it much better than I ever could!

 

[zzGypsy]

so growing up, I didn't understand the emotion stuff... not that I didn't have emotions, I did (mostly fear and anxiety, but the full complement of others too). the problem was I didn't read body language, facial expression, behavioral clues to other's emotions. it wasn't that I didn't care what others felt, it was that I couldn't tell they were upset or unhappy with me until they were WAAAAAY upset or unhappy... as I said, like being colorblind. couldn't see it until it was quite extreme. then once I COULD see it, I had no idea what to do about it... no instinct for appropriate response.

my processing of emotional information is not essentially emotional... it's rule based. it's observation and analysis and logic.

what I finally learned to do (a bit as a late teen, and mostly as an adult) was this:

1) develop a set of observation rules for details that *might* indicate a person is upset. I learned to look for and make a note of the following:

• facial tension, muscle tension around eyes, around mouth, jaw muscles
• squinted eyes, scowling, avoiding eye contact
• body language details including hunched shoulders, crossed arms, waving arms, hands on hips
• language/vocal clues like raised voice, yelling, terse phrases
• word usage, like extreme/absolutes (you always..., you never...)
• behavior like throwing things, slamming things, rough handling of objects
• crying

2) develop a general set of rules that analize those observations:

• if any one of these is happening there is a problem to be addressed: yelling, throwing, crying
• if any 3 other things occur in combination, there is a problem to be addressed.

3) develop a set of rules for interacting with someone who's upset:

• ask if they're upset
• if they say yes, ask what's wrong (and then deal with whatever that is)
• if they say no, comment on what made me think there might be something wrong
• determine if those are non-indicators for this particular person, or mean something other than "upset"
• refine my "are they upset" rule for this person
• ...

You see, it's not that I didn't CARE that the other person was upset, it was that I couldn't instinctively tell until it was waaaaaay late.

I don't have a built in set of things I react to (like tone of voice, facial expression) that trip a response in me. once I learned WHAT to look for (rule 1), and WHEN to act on it (rule 2) and had a plan for HOW to proceed (rule 3) then I could improve my interaction with people in general, and even more for specific individuals.

It's kind of like this: my hubby has some hearing loss (from vietnam) and compensates by lip reading. It would be just silly for me to be upset because he doesn't respond when I talk to him from behind... because he *can't* hear me. I've had to learn to catch his eye before I talk to him. and then he can use his compensatory skill... lip reading... to make up for his deficit ... poor hearing.

with me, my defect is that I can't "hear" people's emotions, but I can use my set of rules for observing then analyzing then acting to compensate for that defect.

I just had to 1) decide that it was important to solve the emotional deafness problem and 2) learn the observation and analysis and behavior rules that are effective in addressing other's emotions.

so just in case it sounds like a LOT of work to do the behavioral stuff by rule, let me assure you... it is. it's tiring. it takes focus. there's a high risk of getting it wrong. it takes learning to tollerate failing or erring or not getting it right without having a melt-down or reaching overload.

however, for me the rewards of becoming skilled at reading people and responding are something that I desire, so I work at it.

I've gotten pretty good at it, most people don't know I have a problem with this stuff... because my skills are good and I practice. I'm fast at it now, but that took a while. and I know to enlist the help of people who know me when I need it. I have friends who can clue me in if I'm missing something, or help explain some interaction I'm having trouble understanding. I have a few people at work who can help me identify things that need improving or help me identify situations that are in need of attention. however, new situations can be a challenge. I recently moved from the west coast to the midwest and some of my rules and observations don't work as well here - it's taken me 6 months to re-tune my observational skills for the local body language and behavior, and I'm still not sure I'm calibrated.

so does all this sound very analytical? it is. that's an aspie strength. analysis, logic, defining and understanding process. emotional territory doesn't fit very well in those methods, but it's what my brain does well... you have to use the tools you have. the trick has been learning how to take my gifts and apply them to the emotional problem where I don't have the "normal" emotional abilities. it's an imperfect solution requiring a fair amount of effort, but I can do a reasonable aproximation of what people with typical emotional abilities do.

 

[zzGypsy]

so one part of improving personal interactions is the skillset above (observations, analysis of observations, rules for acting on that analysis).
aspie's get rules, especially if they can tune those rules to get the results they want. (that's very satisfying)

if your aspie son is having trouble learning something that he's trying to master, it may be that some basic skills and abilities you take for granted are missing from his tool set and you might need to back waaaaaay up in the learning process.

for me, the lesson starting with "here's what to do when someone's upset" was pointless, because I couldn't even tell IF they were upset. once I learned what to observe and take note of, then I could begin to learn what to do about it, or how to avoid upsetting someone in the first place.

and I'll tell you, as a kid, questions like "why do you keep doing xxx when you know it upsets me" just left me staring at the asker with nothing to say because it always looked to me like that stuff just came out of the blue. I had no way to process that question, since I didn't see the upset coming, so I couldn't tell what I'd done that caused it

 

[zzGypsy]

the other part is that we often don't care about the same things as non-aspie folks. the desire-to-please may not be plugged in, or may not be plugged in in the same way as with other folks. for instance (what I look like / how others think I look / if they approve of me) is something I've learned as a rule for work success and not something I have any natural attachment to. I didn't care if my folks liked how I was turned out or not. that territory simply is not anywhere on my radar at all. don't care. not only that, I don't know why OTHER people care. sure, I can explain all the reasons, can probably give you a page-long list of them. but honestly, I don't see the NEED for any of those things and it doesn't make sense to me why anyone WOULD care about them. much of it isn't logical anyway.

for example, we hear this sort of thing in the career world all the time: Dressing Professionally will help you do More Professional Quality Work.

here's what goes on in my Aspie brain:

Really? do you think people really do more professional work when they're dressed in an expensive and uncomfortable outfit? I don't. the QUALITY of my work is not related to what clothing is on the OUTSIDE of my body. it's related to what's on the INSIDE of my mind. THAT might be enhanced by being physically comfortable. it is NOT enhanced by a wearing a suit, pantyhose, and stiff well-polished shoes. do I look fancier and more professional if I'm all dressed up? sure. is my work better? no. and WHAT exactly did you hire me for ANYWAY? if it's to look good, then hire someone who's better looking and who has a more expensive wardrobe and a smaller butt than me. on the other hand, if you want an engineering problem SOLVED, cleanly, elegantly and FAST, then I'm your girl. and if that's what you're paying me good money for, exactly WHY is it you care what I'm wearing?

perfectly logical to me!

and since I can't explain why you would care (despite your list of reasons), or relate to it, it's Just NOT something I have an interest in caring about or putting energy into.

now as an adult, I can understand that "because my boss wants me to" is a good enough reason to do many things. but even if I sign up for doing it, it will *always* be one of those things that I think, "sheesh, what a waste of energy" and I always find it a conundrum that they care what I wear while I'm doing what they really need. it's not like I'm the "face of the company" or deal with customers.

so.

all that to say, if your aspie son can't seem to learn a particular thing, it may simply be that he can't get his mind around why it matters, so nothing you do around that subject sticks.

 

[chicknfun]

Hi Bullet-

My youngest child has Autism. She is 12, and was diagnosed around 2 1/2 years. She is very high functioning, having verbal skills. Socially she doesnt have really any friends, but once in a while she will talk about a friend she met at school.

I really don't know much about Asperger's, just that it falls under the Autism Spectrum (which also includes ADHD, ADD, OCD, and many other things), and that it appears to be basically extremely high functioning form of Autism with more 'normal' verbal tendencies.
Noelle has been in school since she was 3 years old, and has had many great teachers, Thank God!

I went to a conference once and heard Temple Grandin speak. She is a very high functioning Autistic lady who designs equipment for the cattle industry. If you can, try to get her books. She gives a lot of insight into Autism and the way people with Autism feel and think. Hearing her speak was amazing, and it totally changed the way I dealt with my own child from that moment on.... sort of gave me a deeper understanding of what was going on inside of my sweet little girl.
One thing I can tell you is that these kids are very smart!! They are like a sponge that you can't wring the water out of....they soak up everything but don't let much back out. My daughter does not miss a thing going on around her. She is wonderfully honest, in that she just tells you like she sees it, no candy coating. She has recently been caught hiding her homework because once she learns something at school, she doesn't want to review it in any way...LOL
I do know that it seems to be important to involve them in family stuff, rather than just allow them to stay in their own little world all the time. I allow Noelle to have her space, but I also insist on her participating with the rest of us as a family regarding something every day. If she could, Noelle would spend all of her time either on the computer or in the bathtub

. I don't know if it would be the same for people with Asperger's, but even, constant pressure on the body seems to soothe some people with Autism. that's why my daughter loves baths. She will get in there and just float around. She has been swimming since before she was diagnosed. Taught herself, in fact, and has been a water baby ever since. The pressure calms her, and she is happiest when she is in the water.

We have had many experiences with Noelle that were not quite the same as raising the other 3 kids, but Noelle has taught us all a lot, and she continues to be a Blessing to us every day!

 

[chicknfun]

ZZGypsy,
Thanks for the insight! I imagine that my daughter sees things pretty much the way you have described above!