Dog killed a duck, I asked for $50....

[horsejody]

Quote:
You may want to at least change one line in the letter.

"I am not seeking full compensation, only what is reasonably necessary to replace the animal that was killed." I would add "If payment is not received by (fill in the date), I will seek full compensation and the amount owed will be $XXX." You don't want to give this guy any outs.

edited because I forgot to proof read

 

[cjeanean]

Quote:
Changing it now, thanks for the input!!!!

 

[silkydragon]

if you went to court you would probably lose couse you fired at the dog with a BB gun which is strong enough to break the skin and be cruel to the dog but not powerfull enough to kill if the dog suffered any and they had to take it to vet to get bb removed you may even have to pay them this is just what i have read on other post over the yr cuz im interested in this stuff except the paying for vet bill that is an assumption shooting with a paintball gun to just scare the dog not torture it or with a rifle to kill it is different then shooting it in the nose with a BB gun you were not trying to kill it and probly trying to cruel since you could have aimed at a leg or something to scare it off that is probably how court will see it i think the guy is lucky you used a bb gun and not a rifle but law dosnt always work the way it should

 

[poultrypatch]

Sorry for the loss of the duckie. Morons will be morons won't they ?
I just recently bought a pair of Blk Silky Ducks from Holderreads....young adults. I paid $75.00 for the pair plus box and shipping = $138.00.
My opinion is he got off easy. He's lucky that mutt is alive. Dogs or anything...belong in your own yard. I too am a dog lover, I have 13 Poodles. IN MY YARD.
Same goes for people's kids. I once found a neighbor's company's kids inside my chainlink backyard attempting to let some of my Poodle pups out of a 6' high chainlink dog run. Little darlings !
Good luck collecting. I wouldn't give him more then a week and would certainly have a police report.
Liz
Rochester, MA

 

[cjeanean]

Quote:
We've killed other predators with the same gun, and when I was a kid one of our dogs was shot and killed by a pellet gun. I honestly can't say that I wasn't trying to kill it, I just know that it wasn't in my head to kill it, hurt it, anything....all I was thinking about was getting it away from my surviving ducks. I told the sheriff that the dog wasn't dead but that I did hit it, and I also told them what kind of gun I was using and they didn't say anything about that being a problem. I was reading some of the legislation about it and I think the problem you described might arise if I was intentionally trying to maim the dog. I don't know for sure, though, but thanks for bringing that issue up. I will definitely look into it further.

 

[CityChicker]

Quote:
Okay, I still can't figure out what in the world the price of his dog has to do with your dead duck?!? I feel like I am in an alternate universe right now. His dog came on your property and killed your animal, not the other way around. Even if his dog *is* worth that (which is HIGHLY suspect), what does that have to do with this situation? Because you shot at his dog while it was killing your animals? Good grief, that is so nonsensical.

Also, I *completely* disagree with whoever it was from the sheriff's office that told you that. That totally sounds like someone that doesn't want to do their job and handle filing your report. I can almost guarantee you if you go back and try to file a report later, they will refuse to do it saying you should have done it when the event took place. That is ridiculous that they told you that. Law enforcement do not get involved in civil matters, which is what it would be if the guy didn't end up paying. They are concerned about criminal matters, like the actual event that took place, not your compensation. I bet if you go back to file a report when he doesn't pay, they will laugh in your face.

Again, I understand where you are coming from and why you are handling this in the way you are. It is very noble of you and of course, how far you take it is entirely up to you.

 

[CoopCreations]

You are certainly in the right, and everyone knows it. To say you wounded or maimed the poor dog, well that was only because you failed to kill it. You did your duty, and your objective was to stop the threat and protect what is yours. Last time I checked that is perfectly legal in this country. Actually, this may suprise all of you:

In the eyes of the law, injuring economically valuable livestock is traditionally a more serious matter than injuring a person. In at least one state, Minnesota, a dog owner is even guilty of a minor criminal offense - a petty misdemeanor - if the dog kills or pursues domestic livestock.

The two cardinal rules, which apply almost everywhere, are:
1. A livestock owner is free to kill a dog that is killing, wounding, chasing, worrying, harassing, or attacking livestock.
2. A dog's owner or keeper is financially liable for any livestock damage the dog causes.

You're going to get the minority trying to scare you that you shouldn't have done that, blah blah. As far as the law is concerned, a pet is a pet, livestock is livestock. Emotions mean zero in this case, so stick to the facts. This is a not a bleeding heart case. The dog trespassed and did harm to your property and livestock. No brainer case closed. However, you said something about not being able to shoot a gun "in your city". That may be a cause for concern if your city does not allow livestock and many do not. Including fowl, but I digress.

So, here is where you pull the old reliable state laws from the "olden days". Even here is Michigan, there are REAL tough laws about dogs killing, molesting, chasing, etc. Specifically, the "Dog Laws of 1919", Section 287.280, states in part

..a township officer or other person designated by the township board shall request the district court judge to immediately issue a summons against the owner commanding him or her to appear before the township supervisor or township officer or other person designated by the township board and show cause why the dog should not be killed.

and states further...

Upon the return day fixed in the summons the township supervisor or township officer or other person designated by the township board shall proceed to determine whether the loss or damage to the livestock was caused by the dog, and if so he or she shall immediately notify the sheriff or the animal control officer of the county of that fact and upon notification the sheriff or the animal control officer shall kill the dog wherever found. Any owner or keeper of the dog or dogs shall be liable to the county in a civil action for all damages and costs paid by the county on any claim as provided in this section.

And, if you don't want to have to go through all of that malarkey, you can just handle the problem yourself next time:

Michigan State statue Dog Law of 1919, Act 339 of 1919. Section 287.279 spells it out very clearly in Section 19

Any person including a law enforcement officer may kill any dog which he sees in the act of pursuing, worrying, or wounding any livestock or poultry or attacking persons, and there shall be no liability on such person in damages or otherwise, for such killing. Any dog that enters any field or enclosure which is owned by or leased by a person producing livestock or poultry, outside of a city, unaccompanied by his owner or his owner's agent, shall constitute a trespass, and the owner shall be liable in damages.

I am sure if you look hard enough you will find such laws in about any state. So, if the city/township does not provide for it, you can cite state law. And, if you're lucky enough to live in Michigan, I just did all the work for you!

Oh, by the way, if the Sheriff does not take your report, which it is not the Sheriff but most likely a deputy, then call the Sheriff him or herself, whom is an elected official by the way, and file a complaint about filing your complaint and tell that you will file it with the state police next. Don't be afraid to stand up and be heard. If they don't want to help, then ask them if you can have their written permission to handle it yourself next time.

Good Luck.​

 

[horsejody]

Quote:
You're going to get the minority trying to scare you that you shouldn't have done that, blah blah. As far as the law is concerned, a pet is a pet, livestock is livestock. Emotions mean zero in this case, so stick to the facts. This is a not a bleeding heart case. The dog trespassed and did harm to your property and livestock. No brainer case closed. However, you said something about not being able to shoot a gun "in your city". That may be a cause for concern if your city does not allow livestock and many do not. Including fowl, but I digress.

So, here is where you pull the old reliable state laws from the "olden days". Even here is Michigan, there are REAL tough laws about dogs killing, molesting, chasing, etc. Specifically, the "Dog Laws of 1919", Section 287.280, states in part

..a township officer or other person designated by the township board shall request the district court judge to immediately issue a summons against the owner commanding him or her to appear before the township supervisor or township officer or other person designated by the township board and show cause why the dog should not be killed.

and states further...

Upon the return day fixed in the summons the township supervisor or township officer or other person designated by the township board shall proceed to determine whether the loss or damage to the livestock was caused by the dog, and if so he or she shall immediately notify the sheriff or the animal control officer of the county of that fact and upon notification the sheriff or the animal control officer shall kill the dog wherever found. Any owner or keeper of the dog or dogs shall be liable to the county in a civil action for all damages and costs paid by the county on any claim as provided in this section.

And, if you don't want to have to go through all of that malarkey, you can just handle the problem yourself next time:

Michigan State statue Dog Law of 1919, Act 339 of 1919. Section 287.279 spells it out very clearly in Section 19

Any person including a law enforcement officer may kill any dog which he sees in the act of pursuing, worrying, or wounding any livestock or poultry or attacking persons, and there shall be no liability on such person in damages or otherwise, for such killing. Any dog that enters any field or enclosure which is owned by or leased by a person producing livestock or poultry, outside of a city, unaccompanied by his owner or his owner's agent, shall constitute a trespass, and the owner shall be liable in damages.

I am sure if you look hard enough you will find such laws in about any state. So, if the city/township does not provide for it, you can cite state law. And, if you're lucky enough to live in Michigan, I just did all the work for you!

Good Luck.​

Actually, a few of the states have gotten away from this. I checked the animal law website and was surprised that Missouri doesn't list a "kill a livestock killing dog" law. In some states, the dog owner even can request a hearing to determine his dog's innocence or guilt. Thankfully, in Nebraska we can still shoot livestock harrassing dogs. The problem with pellet, bb and paint guns is that they are often not lethal. The laws specifically state that you can kill the dog. There is nothing saying that it is OK to wound, bruise, break the skin, etc. The courts have generally upheld that your intent must be lethal or you can be charged with cruelty. It's stupid, but that's the way it is. Shoot to kill. Everything else is a can of worms.​

 

[gsim]

Definitely get a report and you can go down there and for a small fee they will make you a copy. You might even be able to access it online and have one emailed to you. You must log the report number , time, and officer who took report. You are correct in being civil but firm concerning this matter. The person is a neighbor that you may live near for years to come. Dispatching the pest is a last resort when civility and courtesy have failed. That is the reason for documenting everything that happens. It is the world we live in.

 

[CityChicker]

After reading further in the thread and now reading the letter you are going to give him, I really think you need to change some of what you are going to say. You are giving him too much information and way too many "outs" (as someone else already said). Why give him more information than necessary? I certainly wouldn't mention all this stuff about NPIP certified, cost of feed, etc... He sounds like a real arrogant jerk. Don't you think his next response would be, "What is that NPIP"? "How much extra is that"? "Can you prove your other duck had that"? and on and on and on...... Why give him more to question?

Also, I really think you are estimating low on the replacement cost. I *guarantee* you are estimating WAY low if you seriously are considering Holderread's. You need to go by their current availability list, not their adult pricing table. They don't even list adult Khaki Campbells as being available right now. Even if they were, you frequently will have to buy a pair or trio. They don't often sell single hens (although they actually have this year) and I NEVER see their adult birds priced in the lower price range. Ever. I buy adult birds from them all the time and generally expect to pay double what they say the lowest price is ($75-$100 per bird easily). Just last week, I got one order from them that was just a couple of bantam ducks (same size box as they will send a Campbell in and about the same weight). The box was $15 and the shipping alone was $71.45 additional. If you go that route, know that it is going to cost you probably significantly more than $50 when all is said and done. Better yet, email them with your zip code and just ask them if they have a single hen available that is not listed. Maybe even mention that yours got killed and you will be giving the cost breakdown to the person who is reimbursing you.

I would probably get a quote from someone like Holderread's and be done with it. Don't go in giving him tons of information and things to question. You could even say that you will accept $50 (which is going to be really hard at this point to negotiate since you already agreed to it), and just mention that you found out it is going to be much higher. If you also go with the quote on the adult duck, you save yourself having to argue over things like feed cost. HTH.