Dog training question: place vs. bed vs. crate vs. target vs. ??

[X_and_Z]

I didn't realize it was only 3 runs either!! I thought it was a lot more complicated. I might have to try it sometime!

The number of Qs/legs (qualifying scores) needed to get a title depends on the sport but for some reason 3 is a common number for a lot of sports. Regardless, most performance titles in most organizations require only that you accumulate enough qualifying scores and have nothing to do with what anyone else that is competing is doing. Many performance sports are very supportive as well.

See if there are any quality dog training classes near you in a sport that looks fun and give it a try. There are some sports that are more time intensive and some that are breed specific, but the majority are doable by almost any dog with a moderate amount of effort and you can have a lot of fun.

 

[X_and_Z]

Here is an older video of Singe doing some Rally obedience. This is the Rally Advanced, which is the second level.

Singe is such a happy worker! Lovely runs.

 

[ShrekDawg]

I don't do IPO (schutzhund or any type of bitework) simply because I don't have a close training venue and the time to devote to it. Some trainers work dog in defense and some don't. It really depends on the style of the trainer and the drives of the dog. But yes, the dogs LOVE to work.

Here is an older video of Singe doing some Rally obedience. This is the Rally Advanced, which is the second level.

Ah okay, maybe it depends on the breeding of the dog? Like aren't a lot of Czech/DDR dogs a little harder or more aggressive?

And awesome video! I've thought about Rally O but wasn't really sure what it consisted of? It does seem slightly more fun than just obedience though at least!

The number of Qs/legs (qualifying scores) needed to get a title depends on the sport but for some reason 3 is a common number for a lot of sports. Regardless, most performance titles in most organizations require only that you accumulate enough qualifying scores and have nothing to do with what anyone else that is competing is doing. Many performance sports are very supportive as well.

See if there are any quality dog training classes near you in a sport that looks fun and give it a try. There are some sports that are more time intensive and some that are breed specific, but the majority are doable by almost any dog with a moderate amount of effort and you can have a lot of fun.

I didn't realize that. That's awesome!

I've found some good facilities around here and one especially has a lot of activities and a pool and daycare and stuff and a lot of puppy classes beyond just the basics, like for example crate games, and other fun stuff, so I might go there.

Singe is such a happy worker! Lovely runs.

X2

 

[dainerra]

All of my dogs are Czech-line. They can be a bit "harder" than the typical pet line GSDs that are the most common dogs you see in the US. But when responsibly bred they are also more stable in temperament than your average pet as well.
Singe has worked as a therapy dog. He does Responsible Dog Owner events with our local kennel club. He has a titles in different sports. He's protective and has the Jack of All Trades mentality of a good GSD.

 

[dainerra]

Rally was created to be a stepping stone to get novice competitors interested in obedience. You follow the laid out course and are encouraged to talk to your dog while in the ring, unlike obedience.

 

[ShrekDawg]

All of my dogs are Czech-line. They can be a bit "harder" than the typical pet line GSDs that are the most common dogs you see in the US. But when responsibly bred they are also more stable in temperament than your average pet as well.
Singe has worked as a therapy dog. He does Responsible Dog Owner events with our local kennel club. He has a titles in different sports. He's protective and has the Jack of All Trades mentality of a good GSD.View attachment 1312777 View attachment 1312778

Ahh okay. For some reason I thought they were more suspicious of strangers or even aggressive. I "knew" (followed online) someone that had two and the male was pretty strong personality and I think aggressive ti strangers or at least, just reallyyy didn't like it, and I think even aggressive or dominant with them. They weren't really expecting it and had to have private sessions with the breeder to handle him. BUT. He was also really obedient and loved working. The female I think was also suspicious of strangers but wasn't so aggressive and didn't really like working as much ha

I don't know if that's all those dogs or just bad breeding or what but it seemed it was described as being somewhat representative of those lines.

I think most of the American GSDs are too weak nerved and like you said, kinda unstable. I think if I ever get one, I want to get a West German Show Line (WGSL) or possibly WGWL but working line might be too much for me. Maybe a combo, though I hear that might not be a good idea?

But they seem to have the best combo of all the lines, somewhat calm, good nerves amd temperament, not too crazy energy or working drive but enough to work, gorgeous looks too, etc.

But atm I'm thinking of a Golden or Berger Blanc Suisse/White Swiss Shepherd. I remembered the BBS yesterday after forgetting about them for a while so now I reallyyyyy want one and they seem better than Goldens and calmer than a regular GSD. But unfortunately they're pretty rare and expensive here, let alone one that is actually a true BBS and not just a white shepherd or white GSD being marketed as one.

But one day I will have one.

And a regular GSD.

And a million other dog breeds haha

But wow Singe seems like an awesome dog!!

Rally was created to be a stepping stone to get novice competitors interested in obedience. You follow the laid out course and are encouraged to talk to your dog while in the ring, unlike obedience.

That sounds much more relaxed and fun hah I might have to try it

 

[dainerra]

suspicious of strangers is something that is misunderstood both by owners and inexperienced breeders. A GSD should be aloof to strangers, not seeking attention, and may be "suspicious" as in watchful of strangers until given a sign from the owner that that person is acceptable. Inexperienced breeders choose dogs that show overt signs of suspicion thinking that the breed should be that way. It quickly becomes a cycle with each generation getting worse.
Owners often encourage such behavior without knowing it. A puppy barks at a stranger on a walk and is praised. Dog is leery of someone when out for a walk "Oh he can sense that something was off with that guy" and is praised. The dog quickly learns "strangers are to be avoided." The owner thinks "YEAH! I have an awesome protective dog" when in actuality most of the dogs in question are showing signs of insecurity or fear.

The problem with GSDs in the US is simply overbreeding. Most are what many refer to as "pet lines" - a mishmash of poorly bred dogs with no intent or purpose to breeding besides "I have a girl and you have a boy. Let's make puppies" Some are doing it for money and others love their dogs but are uneducated.
There are some breeders responsibly breeding WGSL and WGWL crosses but not many. The lines are so split as far as looks and purpose that they are practically different breeds. ASL (American Show Lines) are even more split. Most breeders got into their particular bloodline because they view it as the proper representative of the breed. They aren't going to want to dilute that by bringing in other lines whose traits they feel are outside the standard. There are others who are working with a clear plan as far as crossing lines and they should be able to give you a detailed and long explanation as to why they are doing it. Most likely you won't be able to get them to shut up about their dogs
If you want a White dog, check out a UKC show. There are many white GSD breeders there doing things responsibly and producing some great dogs. BBS breeders aren't super common in the US because the breed is still in the creation stage. I'm not sure that the stud books are even closed yet.

 

[R3bauer]

AS it has been said, break it down to smaller tasks, with Treya our boxer we use "Kennel Up" for her to go in her kennel, cushion for her to lay on her cushion and so on. She knows the basic commands sit, stay, come, leave it, and a few others the kids and I have taught her. They key is consistency. Good luck and hope this helps!

 

[ShrekDawg]

suspicious of strangers is something that is misunderstood both by owners and inexperienced breeders. A GSD should be aloof to strangers, not seeking attention, and may be "suspicious" as in watchful of strangers until given a sign from the owner that that person is acceptable. Inexperienced breeders choose dogs that show overt signs of suspicion thinking that the breed should be that way. It quickly becomes a cycle with each generation getting worse.
Owners often encourage such behavior without knowing it. A puppy barks at a stranger on a walk and is praised. Dog is leery of someone when out for a walk "Oh he can sense that something was off with that guy" and is praised. The dog quickly learns "strangers are to be avoided." The owner thinks "YEAH! I have an awesome protective dog" when in actuality most of the dogs in question are showing signs of insecurity or fear.

The problem with GSDs in the US is simply overbreeding. Most are what many refer to as "pet lines" - a mishmash of poorly bred dogs with no intent or purpose to breeding besides "I have a girl and you have a boy. Let's make puppies" Some are doing it for money and others love their dogs but are uneducated.
There are some breeders responsibly breeding WGSL and WGWL crosses but not many. The lines are so split as far as looks and purpose that they are practically different breeds. ASL (American Show Lines) are even more split. Most breeders got into their particular bloodline because they view it as the proper representative of the breed. They aren't going to want to dilute that by bringing in other lines whose traits they feel are outside the standard. There are others who are working with a clear plan as far as crossing lines and they should be able to give you a detailed and long explanation as to why they are doing it. Most likely you won't be able to get them to shut up about their dogs
If you want a White dog, check out a UKC show. There are many white GSD breeders there doing things responsibly and producing some great dogs. BBS breeders aren't super common in the US because the breed is still in the creation stage. I'm not sure that the stud books are even closed yet.

I never thought of that but that is so true. So many people say oh my dog knows somethings off, etc. This one I think the breeder was experienced but idk. But they also live on a very rural farm in Canada so I think he didn't see many people? And it's hard to judge exactly how aggressive he was or even if he was and what the specific behaviors were from online. I also haven't checked the blog in a few years so I forget most of the specifics but yeah. I think he was confident though and acting out of defense rather than fear? Just a strong temperament dog and I think they said he was a lot harder than they expected and/or maybe handler hard? If that's a thing? Again, I forget the exact details.

I'm curious what your thoughts are on dogs that growl at people or things they hear at night? If that's a good thing or not? Or is it fear based or? Cause for instance I read this story of this dog that growled at something in the dark and at first the owner didn't know what it was or see anything but I think there was a guy in the dark. Obviously growling all the time or during the day may be bad but idk, I think having a dog growling or barking at night be a good thing? Because Gator doesn't really go on many walks now cause he's older and having health problems but when we do go, we usually go at night because he can be reactive to some dogs. Anyway, long story short, I walk alone and as a women, I would think having a protective dog might be a good thing? But I suppose it is a very fine like between protective or acting in defense drive or just straight fearful and growling at anyone? Maybe it would be better as a command?

I also read this story recently on a German Shepherd forum and I am curious on your opinion on whether what the dog did was good or bad but I have to find the story first.

But thank you so much for all the info on the lines and breed! I hadn't realized there was such a big difference between WGSL and WGWL. I knew there was a big difference between East German dogs and West German and of course American and the others but I figured WGSL and WGWL were pretty similar. Apparently not? Is it possible to get good nerve and stable temperament with the show lines?

And thanks, I'll have to look at the UKC white shepherds. From what I understand though, the BBS has been separate for like a decade? And that the FCI no longer allows crossbreeding with white German Shepherds because of that? Idk if it's true but supposedly the BBS are calmer than German Shepherds and more for therapy or service work rather than police work and less energy? All of which appealed to me. But I am sure other white shepherds are great too. And regular GSDs. Eventually I'll probably own all 3 hah

AS it has been said, break it down to smaller tasks, with Treya our boxer we use "Kennel Up" for her to go in her kennel, cushion for her to lay on her cushion and so on. She knows the basic commands sit, stay, come, leave it, and a few others the kids and I have taught her. They key is consistency. Good luck and hope this helps!

Thanks!

 

[dainerra]

growling is simply communication. the dog is saying "there is something going on" you have to read the context of the situation and the rest of the body language to know if it's a warning, fear, aggression or simply "hey I don't want to be messed with right now"
Yes, you can get a good breeder of showlines who has dogs with good temperament. The main difference of WGSL and WGWL is going to be the purpose of breeding and the temperament selected for (of course) but most especially in looks.
WGSL tend to have roached backs and deep red color. WGWL tend to be bigger boned, especially if you have a lot of DDR behind the pedigree, and bigger blocky heads. There are actually very few dogs left that are pure DDR these days. The majority are going to have other working lines in the pedigree such as Czech or WGWL.

I don't do a lot of research in the BBS. I know that temperament and purpose wise they are different than GSDs. But if you like the GSD temperament but the look of a white dog definitely check out UKC.

Honestly, you don't need a "protective" dog in most instances unless you are a person who has need of an armed body guard. An obedient dog, especially one that will bark on command, is intimidation enough for most people to pass you by. I teach my dogs a "watch" command. Whatever I point at they are supposed to look at and there are few people who don't find it a good reason to walk on by. Couple that with solid basic obedience and people assume that the dog is something to be reckoned with.