Dogs more important than Chickens?

[TOMTE]

A dog recently killed four out of five of my hens while I was at work and I got a lot of the same responses from people. I also have a dog but I know that alot of dogs (mine included) will chase and grab anything that runs/flaps by them. My hens were penned up, on my property, not free ranging. This dog got out of its fence and came from a house almost a mile away. Never seen it before and knew it wasn't a neighbor's dog from my street/surrounding streets.

The police told me to shoot this dog if I see it near any of my animals again in my yard. Yikes! Shocking to have a cop encourage you to shoot something but that's the law where I live.

Not sure if I could actually do that but I don't think it's right the attitude alot of dog owners have regarding which animals are important and which animals are not important. Also according to cops, this person's dogs get out frequently (he has 3 huskies) and he has been ticketed more than once. I'm expecting the dog will come back. Don't know when it will happen but it's already returned once that I know of. Saw it in my yard by the (now empty) coop. The other 2 huskies were caught running along the state highway about .25 mile away from my yard this same day. Those are some big, expensive dogs to let wander and wow, how long were they gone before the guy noticed? Kinda scary.

Please be careful and good move on the electric fence. That should hopefully do the job because the dog will probably return.

My grandparents have huskies. They used to breed them and still race them. They are so smart, and they're great dogs, but they need work to do on a regular basis and they need to have special care taken wrt containment and obedience, because they're prey driven, independent, and have more energy than the average dog owner is able to satiate. And they're fast, slippery buggers (edit: serious escape artists also!)

First thing any of them do when they manage to escape is go for the cats and/or chickens. Wildlife, too. There have been at least a few porcupine quillings that I know of. If they go after the chickens they definitely go after any wild turkeys, grouse, pheasants, etc that they come across on their huge property. Not to mention the surrounding properties, they've killed neighbors' livestock. It's lucky their neighbors have been understanding (and it helps that they're friends with the closest 2).

Huskies are a contender for most notorious chicken killer among dog breeds. I love them, but it's good to be extra vigilant if you see or hear of them wandering around your area, if you have chickens.

 

[Dita Orlik]

Ok, I am

I would kill a raccoon or other predator if I had to. I wouldn't be happy about it, but I'd do it. We should all do as much non-lethal predator proofing as is feasible, before resorting to the gun. That's just sensible. But if that fails, you do what needs to be done. What needs to be done doesn't just depend on the person, it also depends on the situation.

It's not as black and white as you're making it out to be. I agree to an extent that some people are too trigger happy when it comes to predators but that's not always the case and it's not fair to generalize.

Ok, I am done… it's not an option, that's pretty simple for me if it is NOT black-and-white for you you are not alone there is billions of people like that, that's why there is no wildlife… go to Europe. You will see hawk once a month and you will see owl once a year. You can build this coop get a couple of dogs and there is no excuse to kill anything. If it fails then you failed, because if you saying it's not black and white, if you saying it is an option to murder wildlife, then you will never try hard enough….I am done, that's my last comment on this…this is pointless, I am offering an excellent fantastic idea for the coop and the set up how to manage step-by-step. So take it or leave it. Have a great weekend guys.

 

[lafinestra66]

My grandparents have huskies. They used to breed them and still race them. They are so smart, and they're great dogs, but they need work to do on a regular basis and they need to have special care taken wrt containment and obedience, because they're prey driven, independent, and have more energy than the average dog owner is able to satiate. And they're fast, slippery buggers (edit: serious escape artists also!)

First thing any of them do when they manage to escape is go for the cats and/or chickens. Wildlife, too. There have been at least a few porcupine quillings that I know of. If they go after the chickens they definitely go after any wild turkeys, grouse, pheasants, etc that they come across on their huge property. Not to mention the surrounding properties, they've killed neighbors' livestock. It's lucky their neighbors have been understanding (and it helps that they're friends with the closest 2).

Huskies are a contender for most notorious chicken killer among dog breeds. I love them, but it's good to be extra vigilant if you see or hear of them wandering around your area, if you have chickens.

Amen, that is good advice. I wish I would have known about them but they were from almost a mile away so I had never seen them out in the yard/walking around etc. and none of my neighbors had either. I warned other people in my neighborhood who have chickens and ducks as well since I don't think this person seems concerned that his dogs keep getting out so I feel like it's going to continue. He's gotten multiple animal at large tickets (public record) and I don't think anything will really happen besides more tickets.

On a side note, I saw the fence this guy has and it's about 3.5' tall in some portions and the pickets have at least 6 inches between them in some portions. It's kind of a joke for a fence. Certainly isn't a fence that will keep a large dog in if they want to get out. My dog could jump over it and he's a smallish/medium mixed breed dog, about 35 lbs. So I'm not really surprised that the huskies got out of there.

 

[Dita Orlik]

I do shoot dogs and cats, but not the wild predators. The reason being is one, the predators pick off one or two birds here or there, and I'm able to maintain my flock numbers through letting my birds brood. Dogs do not dash in and leave with one bird; they stay until they've killed every bird they can get to on my property. And two, whereas the wild animals really have as much a right to be here as I do, there is absolutely no excuse for dogs that do not belong to me to be roaming on my property. Not only do they destroy entire flocks in one go, but they're disrupting the native species. I've caught a neighbor's dog destroying a wild turkey nest, and I've watched people's dogs find and tear apart newborn fawns, baby rabbits, fledgling birds, armadillos - there's a reason why I don't even allow my own dogs to roam unsupervised on the property, and you sure as heck won't find me ever owning an outdoor cat. I've had neighbors with a few outdoor cats wonder aloud why they never seem to see lizards or as many small birds on their property, and I just have to roll my eyes and grit my teeth, and curse the fact that my car needs a new paint job that I will never be able to afford because of my previous neighborhoods permissive attitude towards roaming cats. People truly do not understand how destructive their pets can be when not properly kept on their own property. Wild predators don't even come close. I don't want to kill dogs, but until people take the responsibilities of pet ownership seriously, it's what I have to do.

Hi. I agree that people did not kill yet the cats do. I have rabbits all over the place. I have two white-tailed deers with three babies each coming all the way to the house. I have armadillos even though once my dogs dug the nest out. But mainly I have coyotes they take care of any stray dog and cat after dark, and even cougar. I have never seen a stray or neighbour’s dog here out after dark. The environment for any animals to survive is shelter and food. People are riding the tractors and moving the grass non-stop, what are these animals going to eat and where they going to be safe? They need bushes and weeds to feed on and fruit trees people don't like. The small animals in my place have what I call oases, whatever is the bigger distance between the thick cover, I created at least 25x25 yards safety patches with blackberries, and all the thorn trees(osages, locust) that you could not go through for $1 million. My male dogs keep the dogs away from the property and my dogs they know what NO KILLING THE ANIMALS means. They will wipe of the nest of rabbits but only if it is few feet away from the house and they are going lucky discovering it. I do not cut the grass here or drive my tractor from early spring to late fall because I literally step on baby rabbits in this thick grass, I use scythe to cut grass only. And hundreds of wild birds nesting in it. The dogs are doing the same what coyotes do, except they are not hungry. So your explanation for killing the dogs doesn't make much sense if you would not wipe out the coyotes already. So number one the predators have to roam free too. I protect my chickens without interfering with the nature whatsoever you can do the same if you put your mind to it. You don't like to kill dogs, right… no, I don't like to shoot dogs, that's how it looks like. That's why I do it the way I do it. When you decided that this is not an option you have to rethink the fundamental approach to life and start figuring it out from the get-go. I do like your article I do understand what you say, but there is the way if there is a will.

 

[TOMTE]

Hi. I agree that people did not kill yet the cats do. I have rabbits all over the place. I have two white-tailed deers with three babies each coming all the way to the house. I have armadillos even though once my dogs dug the nest out. But mainly I have coyotes they take care of any stray dog and cat after dark, and even cougar. I have never seen a stray or neighbour’s dog here out after dark. The environment for any animals to survive is shelter and food. People are riding the tractors and moving the grass non-stop, what are these animals going to eat and where they going to be safe? They need bushes and weeds to feed on and fruit trees people don't like. The small animals in my place have what I call oases, whatever is the bigger distance between the thick cover, I created at least 25x25 yards safety patches with blackberries, and all the thorn trees(osages, locust) that you could not go through for $1 million. My male dogs keep the dogs away from the property and my dogs they know what NO KILLING THE ANIMALS means. They will wipe of the nest of rabbits but only if it is few feet away from the house and they are going lucky discovering it. I do not cut the grass here or drive my tractor from early spring to late fall because I literally step on baby rabbits in this thick grass, I use scythe to cut grass only. And hundreds of wild birds nesting in it. The dogs are doing the same what coyotes do, except they are not hungry. So your explanation for killing the dogs doesn't make much sense if you would not wipe out the coyotes already. So number one the predators have to roam free too. I protect my chickens without interfering with the nature whatsoever you can do the same if you put your mind to it. You don't like to kill dogs, right… no, I don't like to shoot dogs, that's how it looks like. That's why I do it the way I do it. When you decided that this is not an option you have to rethink the fundamental approach to life and start figuring it out from the get-go. I do like your article I do understand what you say, but there is the way if there is a will.

I would also love to re-wild the yard on our property, it's true that the wild animals need a place to go, and we should provide. Unfortunately, the property isn't mine, and nobody else in my family, including my aunt and uncle who own the property, would go for something like that. They like their lawns. I hate lawns.

Everything you're doing for the wildlife around you is amazing, I'd love to hear more about it (not in this thread though, that's off topic). But it's not possible for everybody to provide for the local wildlife to such a huge extent and thus create a sort of harmony like you have. It takes money, a lot of physical labor, ecological knowledge, and sometimes like in my case, permission from the land owner.

I would also love to have a guardian dog or two but we simply can't afford to care for a dog, being below the poverty line.

Ideally we would all have the means (and want) to do what you do, but not everybody does. Educate people without pointing fingers, if it means that much to you.

 

[Dita Orlik]

I would also love to re-wild the yard on our property, it's true that the wild animals need a place to go, and we should provide. Unfortunately, the property isn't mine, and nobody else in my family, including my aunt and uncle who own the property, would go for something like that. They like their lawns. I hate lawns.

Everything you're doing for the wildlife around you is amazing, I'd love to hear more about it (not in this thread though, that's off topic). But it's not possible for everybody to provide for the local wildlife to such a huge extent and thus create a sort of harmony like you have. It takes money, a lot of physical labor, ecological knowledge, and sometimes like in my case, permission from the land owner.

I would also love to have a guardian dog or two but we simply can't afford to care for a dog, being below the poverty line.

Ideally we would all have the means (and want) to do what you do, but not everybody does. Educate people without pointing fingers, if it means that much to you.

The laws are changing at least in Europe or northern Colorado they don't get penalised for not cutting the grass anymore in town. All you can do is to try to transform and try to explain as you go. I feel you, that's just horrible how people are stupid and mean. I saw this reward educational program for the kids if they transform part of the loan into bees and wasp attraction, they get like a diploma. I don't know how could you reward your land owner though? But at least try to talk to him.

 

[PrettyCoolChicks]

Reading all the answers, so much depends on the type of neighborhood and norms for relations between residents.

I don't think where should be a hierarchy between loved animals, but most people have no clue about chicken. I also would be upset if a neighbour was dismissive like that!

I think in the situation of the original message, I'd try to get the others to understand my chicken are my family/babies, by telling some stories of how I hatched them myself, cared for them when they were ill and how i taught them to come when i call, and what this hen's fun personality traits were. You won't get empathy by threatening others pets if they are at the stage where they see chicken as whatever, unimportant objects. It might not work with the dog owner, but you might get more support from others in the group chat.

I also think it is easy to not have empathy in a group chat, read the tone wrong, etc. Maybe a proper face to face conversation could help?

I don't believe in an eye for an eye, it just escalates conflicts... I live in an area where I feel need to get decently along regardless of differences of opinion. I'd focus on keeping my birds safe. Whatever I do to protect from dogs will help with other predators anyway, cause if a dog can get in, so can a bear/cougar/fox/wolf...

 

[FalseToast]

I recently had an issue come up that got me thinking. I had a few dogs attack my chickens and I contacted the owner within my neighborhood chat.

A few people have made comments like: “a dog is my child” and “a dog is more important than your chickens”

“If you would shoot a dog, I hope you wouldn’t shoot a child”

I don’t agree that a dog is the equivalent to a child. They are animals.

Do you all believe it’s acceptable to protect your chickens against all predators? (Including someone’s dog)

The law states I can kill a dog attacking my chickens. Hopefully, more people can be aware of this issue so they can protect their own animals.

We ended up putting up an electric fence.

Alright, if we’re considering dogs and chickens as people, I’d put it into this perspective…

If a person came over and started attacking my children, they’d probably get shot, or seriously injured. And if you want to put it into their perspective, if a person trespassed on my property and started destroying my livelihood, they’d probably have the same result.

 

[Dita Orlik]

Reading all the answers, so much depends on the type of neighborhood and norms for relations between residents.

I don't think where should be a hierarchy between loved animals, but most people have no clue about chicken. I also would be upset if a neighbour was dismissive like that!

I think in the situation of the original message, I'd try to get the others to understand my chicken are my family/babies, by telling some stories of how I hatched them myself, cared for them when they were ill and how i taught them to come when i call, and what this hen's fun personality traits were. You won't get empathy by threatening others pets if they are at the stage where they see chicken as whatever, unimportant objects. It might not work with the dog owner, but you might get more support from others in the group chat.

I also think it is easy to not have empathy in a group chat, read the tone wrong, etc. Maybe a proper face to face conversation could help?

I don't believe in an eye for an eye, it just escalates conflicts... I live in an area where I feel need to get decently along regardless of differences of opinion. I'd focus on keeping my birds safe. Whatever I do to protect from dogs will help with other predators anyway, cause if a dog can get in, so can a bear/cougar/fox/wolf...

I think it depends on basic question, do you have a right to eliminate the wildlife because you got chickens because somebody gives you a deed to your property? And the planet has to bear consequences for decades or hundreds of years or it can even be irreversible after you are 6 feet under? Do you think those animals care if you think that you own it? Do you have a right to decide what lives and die on it? That's the question that's the question I say absolutely no, no one has that right. You say it depends on blah blah blah. When I address it like “you” I mean it generally talking. The beginning of every change for the better is actually talking and not being afraid to say what do you think whatever it is. I am out… have to go out and play with my animals. Have a great day.

 

[PrettyCoolChicks]

I understand you have a very strong opinion on this and can imagine why, but I don't believe that dismissing other peoples' points of view while repeating your own is ever going to make someone suddenly see the light.

For example, the context to your above questions is the law, which varies by location. And we make up the laws that give us the right to exploit the planet, and animals, and other people so they're probably not the answer you want anyway.

Poeple don't wake up in the morning wondering how they are going to ruin the planet today. They might wonder how to protect their birds. They might even believe having their own birds and killing a predator once is a while is better for the planet overall than buying industrial meat from the store. A better question than "what give you the right" might be, what can be done to make it easier to protect the birds in a way that discourages killing predators. We have non profits helping fund electric fencing and managing attractants for people to reduce conflict for example. That has worked way better to save bears from being shot around here than treating people like they're a child by wagging a finger saying this is a big no no, find another way.

Also, note that I fundamentally I agree humans should be caretakers of the planet or at least leave a small footprint and not exploit/destroy it, though I have a more moderate/pragmatic stance, so I'm not going to argue further.