Dominique Thread!

[Sylvester017]

OK. What is a BCM?

Thank you for posting that about Mediterranean breeds. I get so frustrated when people ask me advice on what to get, then decide they can keep Production Reds, commercial white Leghorns, and a Silkie, Buff Orpington, or Polish together. This year several people on a local group have reported seriously injured birds, and one Silkie was scalped, most of the skin on her head and back removed, and she died, and it took a while because her owner didn't understand that a chicken missing that much skin is not going to live and didn't promptly put her down. All goes well for a year or two, and then disasters happen.

Aggressive birds may start by eating all of the feathers off of a bird. They may graduate to eating combs, wattles, tearing out a bird's genitalia and eating it while she is laying, stripping skin off, and eating the flesh underneath. You really don't want to go there. Sometimes you can save the situation by taking a really sharp dog nail clipper or toe nail clipper and trimming off about 1/4" of the upper beak. Although this will grow back, some hens give up after a few days of "firing blanks" at the other girls. Omlet sells bumpa bits, which can also work. We had a problem adding younger girls to the flock that would ebb and flow so I tried pinless peepers before going back to that Ohio invention of the 1930s - beak trimming. I don't like pinless peepers because not only do they interfere with vision, but I watched our biddies help each other remove them. Within minutes I had Black Star hens reaching out to each other and trying to pull them off of each other with their feet. Within a few days they had successfully removed them.

BCM=Black Copper Marans
BO=Buff Orpington
Lorp=Australorp
RIR=Rhode Island Red
NHR=New Hampshire Red (recently have been referred to as just New Hampshire)
Dom=Dominique
BR or PBR=Barred Rock or Plymouth Barred Rock
Leg=Leghorn
Amer=Ameraucana
EE=Easter Egger
SLW or GLW or BLRW=Silver or Gold Laced or Blue Laced Red Wyandotte
SLP or GLP-Silver Laced or Gold Laced Polish
Crevie=Crevecoeur
CL=Cream Legbar
Bielie=Bielefelder
RCBL or SCBL=Rose Combed or Straight Combed Brown Leghorn
LF=large fowl
banty=bantam fowl
etc
etc
etc
You fill in the blanks and try to figure out the logos. It took me a year to figure out the RCBL - LOL!

Thanks for the graphic picture about what the aggressive breeds do to gentler or smaller breeds. Maybe this graphic will drive home to readers of this post that YOU DON'T MIX BANTAMS WITH ANY LF AND DON'T MIX ANY MEDITERRANEAN CLASS WITH GENTLER LF OR SMALLER FOWL BECAUSE MED'S ARE A VERY ASSERTIVE BREED FOR BEING A LIGHTER WEIGHT BREED. AS CHICKS MOST BREEDS SEEM TO GET ALONG BUT AS LF OR DUAL PURPOSE CHICKS GROW BIGGER AND FASTER THEY WILL ACTUALLY BEGIN TO PICK ON THE SLOWER GROWING BANTAMS!!!!

 

[Sylvester017]

We in the Dominique Club of America are doing what we can to encourage more folks to become Dominique breeders, but it is difficult. This past spring we had a membership drive where we gave away a new incubator, and many of us sent hatching eggs "FREE" to new folks who wanted to become breeders. Don't know if that will happen next spring or not.
The best way to locate Dominique breeders is to contact a DCA member or officer. Most of us don't ship live birds, some do. I don't, but I willingly ship fertile eggs.

I don't know why Dom breeders hesitate to ship live birds. I received 4 rare birds (not Doms) in two separate shipments last year from an excellent breeder on the East Coast who was experienced at shipping and receiving live juvenile and adult bird orders - I paid extra because I was so appreciative. We both don't especially like chick shipments and not everyone can incubate eggs to get unwanted roos that are difficult to rehome - especially when there are city ordinances against roos and there are hen limits. I was perfectly willing to pay the shipping cost which was 3x more than the price of a juvenile but I got exactly identifiable sexed pullets - at 3 to 4 months old they are hardy enough to make the overnight USPS trip. I always got my live birds the very next day from the breeder. I also always order two birds at a time to keep each other company on the trip. I did lose a pullet less than a month after receiving it but as the buyer I assume that risk and can't blame the breeder - hatchery shipments have disclaimers after the first 24-48 hours not to be responsible for deaths that occur after that period. My breeder and I didn't have that disclaimer in writing but it was just understood.

Dom breeders won't do this - how they can promote Dom interest when they are so tight-fisted about releasing their juvenile stock via shipping is beyond me. I'm sure they have a lot of culls that still would make excellent backyard pets when people are willing to settle for pet quality - I'm sure after 3-4 months the breeder can tell which ones they'll keep and which can be shipped out as pets but they won't do it. The only really nice guy I spoke to on a Dom site is no longer a Dom breeder. Hence I revert back to Cackle Hatchery or my local feed store and the picky Dom breeders can eat their birds.

Like I said there are probably a lot of nice Dom breeders out there but the policy stinks of the ones I had contact with. If they really want to promote interest they've got to bite the bullet and start shipping some live birds instead of culling those precious pet quality ones that don't quite make the show standards.

 

[Sylvester017]

If you want to cross in a white egg layer with Dominiques, consider using California Grays instead of California Whites. A California White is the result of a California Gray cock on a white Leghorn hen. Grays don't lay as well as whites, but they breed true, tolerate colder weather than Leghorns, and have a better temperament than California Whites - and they are light years more pleasant to be around than white Leghorns.

There are trade offs. If you have adequate forage you may find it very economical to keep somewhat less productive birds such as Dominiques or Buckeyes and avoid drama in the coop. You might find California Grays meet your needs - they sort of look like a small, more gracile utility Barred Rock; they tend to be a little flighty and nervous when young, but they mellow out and seem to be very intelligent birds.

The thing to remember about having Dominiques, is that you will be the proud owner of the Keystone Koop. Prepare for wild chase scenes as birds burst into the air like a bouquet of pheasants being flushed whenever they see or hear the door open. Watch the excitement as one runs one way around the raised bed, the other runs the other way, and the collide and fall down when they reach the end - and then get up, uninjured, and continue their hot pursuit of a hummingbird which they seem to believe is the world's tastiest bug. Thrill to sitting down to read and suddenly finding yourself weighed down by the entire flock - and as you attempt to shoo them away from your lap, they leap on your head and shoulders from behind. Mack Sennett would be proud.

California Greys have just two things on their mind - eating and being mating fools (the males anyway). I believe they are a little hard on the hens. It's what I researched but maybe someone who's had them can input. Personally I would stay away from any Leghorn or Leg mix unless they are exclusively in a Mediterranean flock - but that's just me from my own personal experience.

Give me the curious, outgoing, active, foraging, friendly Dom over a BR or CG any day! If you're lucky a BR (who has Dom as its foundation breed) might inherit a Dom personality but with game bird Malay in the BR breed history I'd be the unlucky one to get a BR with the game bird's aggressive nature gene LOL.

Doms (and APA Ameraucanas) seem to actually CRAVE human interaction from chicks to adulthood and they love to converse with you. Our Dom chick was a chatterbox and our Ameraucana always seems to have plenty to say to us.

 

[The Yakima Kid]

Old time Doms used to be SC AND RC but in Victorian show circles when the BR group wanted to standardize their larger BRs from the Doms the BRs got the SC APA standard and the Doms got the RC APA standard. There's supposedly a feather pattern and color difference between the two breeds but basically the combs separate the APA standards but Doms will occasionally sport the old SC.

Absolutely. There were even five toed Dominique strains in the past. Most Dominiques apparently were larger AND single combed - but BR advocates (apparently one or two in particular) pushed to have the standards redefined to limit Dominiques to rose combed smaller birds. Many Dominiques were suddenly sold and shown as Barred Rocks, which was a further demonstration of the significant contribution to the "new" Barred Rocks by our gorgeous Dominique biddies.

Dominiques are supposed to have a cuckoo pattern that is irregular and in grays that fall just short of white and just short of black. Unfortunately, you see breeders choosing to breed barred rather than cuckoo Dominiques because they think the black and white regular barred pattern is more attractive. Unfortunately, judges reward this and those I consider heedless use this as an excuse to breed in Barred Rocks with their Dominiques. My personal belief is that there are far more Barred Rocks and Barred Rock breeders than Dominique breeders, and that those who wish an evenly barred black and white bird should find it simple to locate a Barred Rock breeder willing to help them switch to raising Barred Rocks. I'd really rather that people leave the Dominique a Dominique, and at my age I feel perfectly comfortable saying so.

 

[The Yakima Kid]

California Greys have just two things on their mind - eating and being mating fools (the males anyway). I believe they are a little hard on the hens. It's what I researched but maybe someone who's had them can input. Personally I would stay away from any Leghorn or Leg mix unless they are exclusively in a Mediterranean flock - but that's just me from my own personal experience.

Give me the curious, outgoing, active, foraging, friendly Dom over a BR or CG any day! If you're lucky a BR (who has Dom as its foundation breed) might inherit a Dom personality but with game bird Malay in the BR breed history I'd be the unlucky one to get a BR with the game bird's aggressive nature gene LOL.

Doms (and APA Ameraucanas) seem to actually CRAVE human interaction from chicks to adulthood and they love to converse with you. Our Dom chick was a chatterbox and our Ameraucana always seems to have plenty to say to us.

The hen/rooster ratio for California Grays should be higher than that for other American class birds - about that of other Mediterranean and Mediterranean influenced breeds. The CGs are more productive egg layers and more efficient than most of the American class - and they lay white eggs. I know a number of people who successfully keep them in highly mixed flocks with everything including Delawares.

The BRs I've had haven't shown aggression; they tend to be mellow, possibly because of the Java influence.

But neither CGs nor BRs are Dominiques. I've had other breeds that love to hold conversations with people - but only the Dominiques continue at a year of age and more to burst from the ground like the flushing of a bouquet of pheasants when they hear the opening of the back door. B^)

 

[The Yakima Kid]

This morning around 6:30 I woke up and let the Dominiques out; half the flock burst from the coop, and ran for the blueberry hedge while a few stragglers stopped to chat with me first.

There is nothing like the joy of a flock of biddies being freed from the henitentiary in the morning.

 

[The Yakima Kid]

Dom breeders won't do this - how they can promote Dom interest when they are so tight-fisted about releasing their juvenile stock via shipping is beyond me. I'm sure they have a lot of culls that still would make excellent backyard pets when people are willing to settle for pet quality - I'm sure after 3-4 months the breeder can tell which ones they'll keep and which can be shipped out as pets but they won't do it. The only really nice guy I spoke to on a Dom site is no longer a Dom breeder. Hence I revert back to Cackle

Oh, I think you mean Mark Fields. He is sort of like the Grand Master of Dominique people. His line of bantams were famous. I believe he may be working with Cackle, which acquired a lot of his stock, in order to improve them since I gather that they were starting to go downhill under hatchery management.

I'm seriously considering that when it is time to renew my flock of obtaining all bantams from Cackle.

 

[Sylvester017]

Absolutely. There were even five toed Dominique strains in the past. Most Dominiques apparently were larger AND single combed - but BR advocates (apparently one or two in particular) pushed to have the standards redefined to limit Dominiques to rose combed smaller birds. Many Dominiques were suddenly sold and shown as Barred Rocks, which was a further demonstration of the significant contribution to the "new" Barred Rocks by our gorgeous Dominique biddies.

Dominiques are supposed to have a cuckoo pattern that is irregular and in grays that fall just short of white and just short of black. Unfortunately, you see breeders choosing to breed barred rather than cuckoo Dominiques because they think the black and white regular barred pattern is more attractive. Unfortunately, judges reward this and those I consider heedless use this as an excuse to breed in Barred Rocks with their Dominiques. My personal belief is that there are far more Barred Rocks and Barred Rock breeders than Dominique breeders, and that those who wish an evenly barred black and white bird should find it simple to locate a Barred Rock breeder willing to help them switch to raising Barred Rocks. I'd really rather that people leave the Dominique a Dominique, and at my age I feel perfectly comfortable saying so.

I think the old-time 5-toed Dorkings must've been used a lot in the old days to bulk up certain breeds to make them table fare. Even the Dorkings today can surprise you by sporting either RC or SC.

Just as with Ameraucana and Araucana breeders there were strong opinions between BR and Dom breeders as to what constituted the ultimate APA standard.

Yes, at my age, I too don't mind doing a rant once in a while!

 

[Sylvester017]

Oh, I think you mean Mark Fields. He is sort of like the Grand Master of Dominique people. His line of bantams were famous. I believe he may be working with Cackle, which acquired a lot of his stock, in order to improve them since I gather that they were starting to go downhill under hatchery management.

I'm seriously considering that when it is time to renew my flock of obtaining all bantams from Cackle.

Mark was not the gentleman I contacted but a Daniel was who I spoke with. I too was considering the Cackle Dom bantams because they had acquired Mark's stock for their breeding program. Cackle tries to keep their breed lines going but must really be overwhelming having to care for so many different breeds with any continuing standard accuracy. What prevents me from ordering is that there is no way I can get a minimum order since city folks aren't that into raising chickens to split an order and I can't use 15 minimum bantam chicks that may turn out mostly roos when full grown. I don't know why Cackle has to sell the Dom bantams as straight run when the pullets are easily identifiable from the cockerels at day-old

I have a DCA bantam Dom breeder contact but very far away and as always these private breeders will not ship live birds

 

[Sylvester017]

The BRs I've had haven't shown aggression; they tend to be mellow, possibly because of the Java influence.

With BRs it's the luck of the dice if you get a good natured BR considering their mixed game breed history but my friend was not so lucky and got an aggressive one. From having BRs and Doms I prefer the lighter weight and consistently personable Doms.

But neither CGs nor BRs are Dominiques. I've had other breeds that love to hold conversations with people - but only the Dominiques continue at a year of age and more to burst from the ground like the flushing of a bouquet of pheasants when they hear the opening of the back door. B^)

Only those who have actually owned a Dom or a Blue Wheaten Ameraucana (not an EE) can understand what we're talking about when it comes to the personableness of these breeds. You have to have owned just ONE to grasp what we're talking about! I've had RIR, NHR, BR, Silkies, different Leghorn varieties, but none can compare to the overly exaggerated curiosity and friendliness of a Dom or the craving of human attention and interraction of an APA Blue Wheaten Ameraucana. Though different in many ways they are both lively, curious, alert, talkative, social, flock-friendly breeds. OurFlyBabies.com always keeps Blue Wheaten Ameraucanas because they willingly accept orphaned chicks or injured birds into their flock without incident and that was testimonial enough for me to get one - ours has been proven true to that description. According to Daniel on the American Dominique website he said that the curious friendy outgoing personality of the Dom chick continues well into their adulthood. That too was testimonial enough for me to get one (unfortunately we lost her way too early but will have more again in the future). Other chicks either cower in the brooder or run up to see what treats you have, quickly get bored, and run off again. Not Dom chicks - they'll hang around to check out your eyeglasses, your hair, jump on your shoulder, or cuddle in the crook of your arm to fall asleep. We've never had such overt chick breeds before!