Don't sick and/or get accident if you don't have money

[mom'sfolly]

If I read ChickenEd's proposal for the healthcare system overhaul correctly he says everyone should make enough money to pay for healthcare or insurance.

Lovely idea, how do you propose to make it happen? Do you reduce insurance costs so everyone can afford them? If so, how do you do that? Do you add all the young, uninsured, low-risk people to the insurance pool; providing them with insurance (money for the insurance companies) and lowering the overall risk pool, lowering premiums for everyone? Do you make medical care less expensive? How do you do that? Reduce payments to doctors? Make medical school more affordable so that the doctor's first plan after medical school isn't based on "How do I pay $500,000 in student loans"? Or do you raise the minimum wage to a liveable wage? Do you pay the garbage man enough for healthcare, or is he undeserving because he works in a low paying job? Does everyone in a low paying job have to skip the doctor? Or do we not need garbagemen?

I suspect any of these solutions doesn't work in this worldview?

I seriously ask, how would you propose to fix the healthcare system? Or do you see no problems with the current system, and see no reason to change anything?

 

[newfoundland]

I'm not sure who buys Canadian products Chickened, but I don't see any for sale over here. Perhaps you mean they are sold widely in US. The two reasons imports sell well is that represent good value for money or they are a superior product for the same money, I leave you to decide which. I can't see the relevance of which particular political model Canada follows.

Although this completely off topic, I feel it needs clarification. Regarding WW2, it is true that I was born after the war. I know my father went away in 1939 and came back to UK in 1945. I know that the war in Europe began in 1939, and the Battle of Britain was in 1940. I know that because my Mother's home was bombed in the Blitz. As for bailing out Europe, I'm wondering if you are referring to 'Martial Aid' or maybe 'Lease Lend', whereby US made armaments available to UK? If so I can tell you categorically that these were loans, and it took two generations to pay them off! others on this forum have remarked on how bouyant the economy was in US in WW2. President Roosevelt made the comment, 'Let's milk the old cow', when referring to selling armaments to UK. I must add that I honour the sacrifice that many US service men made in WW2, they are not forgotten!

Do you not think it arrogant to say, 'if anyone can get it done, we can.' This implies that others are inefficient, unimaginative and possibly lazy. Do you believe that in all these other places in the world, people blunder about in darkness, getting nowhere and achieving nothing?

I don't know if you are a lady or a gentleman, but I think you may be an older person. I would say this to you.

You owe it to those who come after you to leave things in a better state than you found them.

Children are this world's greatest asset and it is prudent to give them the best healthcare and education possible.

Most people in this world are decent, hardworking and caring, give them the benefit of the doubt.

Caring for those in need is the highest calling of all.

Bitterness is a cancer, it feeds on the host. Root it out of your soul.

 

[chickened]

It is really simple , live within your means. I provide for my children and pay for it others should do the same. Are you saying that the poor are inept? cannot or do not have the capability to get a good job? just because they are poor? The widows and orphans should be provided for but not the able. People want good healthcare benefits cut out the luxuries for starters make sacrifices I did. Where does being taken care of stop? and personal responsibility begin? Healthcare has become a very profitable business and you would need to take the profit out of it and I do not see that happening anytime soon.

And everyone still will not address the fact that it is not the role of government to provide healthcare so I feel that it is a private sector issue and that means one must buy it. Until you or anyone concedes that fact I see no fix for the problem as stated many times. Isn't throwing more money at the problem essentially what is being proposed here anyhow so naturally if you made more money you could afford it, simple right? Somehow having the government redistribute that money makes some happy, I am not one of those people.

mom'sfolly :

If I read ChickenEd's proposal for the healthcare system overhaul correctly he says everyone should make enough money to pay for healthcare or insurance.

Lovely idea, how do you propose to make it happen? Do you reduce insurance costs so everyone can afford them? If so, how do you do that? Do you add all the young, uninsured, low-risk people to the insurance pool; providing them with insurance (money for the insurance companies) and lowering the overall risk pool, lowering premiums for everyone? Do you make medical care less expensive? How do you do that? Reduce payments to doctors? Make medical school more affordable so that the doctor's first plan after medical school isn't based on "How do I pay $500,000 in student loans"? Or do you raise the minimum wage to a liveable wage? Do you pay the garbage man enough for healthcare, or is he undeserving because he works in a low paying job? Does everyone in a low paying job have to skip the doctor? Or do we not need garbagemen?

I suspect any of these solutions doesn't work in this worldview?

I seriously ask, how would you propose to fix the healthcare system? Or do you see no problems with the current system, and see no reason to change anything?​

 

[chickened]

The Canadian government subsidizes thier natural resources to create wealth within the country and therefore the actual costs are lower on exports.

I am glad you support the troops our left wing here doesn't.

Some people are better suited for certain tasks that is just a reality and has nothing to do with superiority or arrogance.

Leaving a mountain of debt for my children is hardly a good thing. We need to get off the credit card mentality.

There seems to be an ever growing gray area in determining who is actually needy. And the hardworking middleclass have always been the ones that pay for the bulk of social services of which I fit in to. As I posted earlier the rich and poor always pay less on a percentage that is just the way it is.

I can go on-line and find any bits of information to back my views just as well as the next guy so I think posting links is a waste of time and doesn't lend credence to any argument any more than spouting something that I have read. It is all subject to error and bias.

I have seen that when you give someone something you usually just give them something to fight over. The suggestion that you leave a legacy of sorts sounds good in a distant world but it just doesn't happen that way in real life it is a dog eat dog world out there and social engineering has not nor ever will fix the heart of man. Why do you think we have to sign away everything that we can to buy a car, get a loan or whatever because the lenders "trust" us I mean come on get a grip on life you are not living in la la land things have a price attached to it nothing is really free my friend..
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[mom'sfolly]

The poor simply cannot afford heath care or insurance. Period.

Let me spin a scenario for you, one that is actually true. My brother-in-law got cancer, a rabid growing, soft-tissue sarcoma. The nearest oncologist was 700 air miles away, the nearest one who had ever treated his type of cancer was closer to 1000 miles away. His first treatment was surgery, 1000 miles from home. He came home, had a clean scan in September, and by December he had a tumor 2.5 cm in diameter. The treatment, directed by his 1000 mile distant oncologist, was chemo, followed by radiation treatment. Oops, radiation treatment has to be done in a cancer treatment facility...so off 1000 miles from home, for six weeks. Then more surgery and radiation at the surgery site. He had health insurance and survived. If he hadn't worked for the government, and had the same job in private industry, he would not have had health insurance, but he would have been paid much more. He would not have been paid enough to pay for his treatment. He would have died in 6-7 months, in pain, for a treatable disease.

No one in this country, except the extremely wealthy, can afford to pay out of pocket for a catastrophic illness, a car accident or a premature baby. This is a fact. Nor can you plan never to have any of this happen to you. Life doesn't happen that way. So yes, the working poor go into bankruptcy, go into debt they can never get out of, default on payments or they don't get treated.

I think our world views are so different there is no common ground. Your opinion is that if you can't afford it you don't deserve it, and I feel that people shouldn't be faced with the option of bankruptcy or death.

 

[revolution rooster]

Be prepared for much worse! Change? YEA RIGHT! I feel sorry for those who dont know how to fend for themselves...

 

[rebelcowboysnb]

Out of all the stories on this thread, the one person I really feel sorry for is chickened. I don't know what can give anyone that mindset but its sad to see.

 

[KristyHall]

mom'sfolly :

The poor simply cannot afford heath care or insurance. Period.

Let me spin a scenario for you, one that is actually true. My brother-in-law got cancer, a rabid growing, soft-tissue sarcoma. The nearest oncologist was 700 air miles away, the nearest one who had ever treated his type of cancer was closer to 1000 miles away. His first treatment was surgery, 1000 miles from home. He came home, had a clean scan in September, and by December he had a tumor 2.5 cm in diameter. The treatment, directed by his 1000 mile distant oncologist, was chemo, followed by radiation treatment. Oops, radiation treatment has to be done in a cancer treatment facility...so off 1000 miles from home, for six weeks. Then more surgery and radiation at the surgery site. He had health insurance and survived. If he hadn't worked for the government, and had the same job in private industry, he would not have had health insurance, but he would have been paid much more. He would not have been paid enough to pay for his treatment. He would have died in 6-7 months, in pain, for a treatable disease.

No one in this country, except the extremely wealthy, can afford to pay out of pocket for a catastrophic illness, a car accident or a premature baby. This is a fact. Nor can you plan never to have any of this happen to you. Life doesn't happen that way. So yes, the working poor go into bankruptcy, go into debt they can never get out of, default on payments or they don't get treated.

I think our world views are so different there is no common ground. Your opinion is that if you can't afford it you don't deserve it, and I feel that people shouldn't be faced with the option of bankruptcy or death.

my family has been through two medical bankruptcies. one came from me, as a child i was hospitalized multiple times, once for six months. both my parents worked. my mother even had a bachelors, but despite them working constantly to support us... they had to go into bankruptcy. we managed to keep the house.

the second one my mother developed a devastating neurological illness. she could no longer work, and it took years to get disability. (it take s along time to get disability despite what people think and during that time many people loose everything ) but during that time they racked up so much in medical bills, that we lost everything, our home, savings, the cars, our land, everything.

before these bankruptcies, before we managed to get the house, there was a time my mother sister and i lived in a car because she left my abusive legal father, and he was incredibly wealthy and managed to not only take us to the cleaners, but tried to kill us several times and got away with it. (the eighties were not kind to abuse victims)

money was so tight, and the shelters could only help us so much, we couldn't even afford to buy band aids. My mother had to choose between eating or getting antibiotics I needed. She often went without meals to ensure that my sister and i had our basic needs. She worked during this time, and she worked hard menial jobs because she had to, including working these jobs with a broken back. She literally broke her back and kept working.

as soon as my sister could work she did to try and help out.

We are all educated, have degrees, and worked hard. We are not over weight or lazy or spoiled.

my mother did everything she could and life still kicked her. She's very sick, and now so is my sister. I'm helpless watching them both suffer, their pride hurt because they can not work or change their situation and then there are people out there who blame them for their suffering. How can anyone blame them for this?​

 

[Patience]

Chickened, your view seems to be that anything you have is good and anything anyone else needs is bad.

You say you support the troops but that the government has no business providing health care. What about the Veterans Health Administration?

You say the government has no business providing health care but that you should receive Medicare.

The government already provides health care. It needs to do it better and for more people. You still have not responded to this as you continue to accuse others of not responding to you.

You also have not responded to the fact that you receive government assistance. Are you willing to start truly living within your means? Will you start paying $12/gallon for gas? Will you start paying the true cost of unsubsidized grain? How about dairy? What about paving your own roads? How about the true cost of electricity? Or cotton?

To be fair, you should unplug your computer until you can afford to lay your own cable and launch your own satellites.

You no more live within your means than anybody else in this country.

 

[farmerlor]

The left wing in this country do not support military????? You are aware of course that some of our military ARE left wing right???? Some people really, really need to get world views and news from someone other than Glenn Beck.