Drunk wobbly and low hanging crop. Marek's or pendolous crop or both?

[bygrace53]

So you said nothing can be done for a Mareks chicken. It's not treatable?

 

[teampenninglady]

I got some more out this morning...still not convinced it is not the wet soup I am giving her. NO APPETITE NOW...about an hour ago...she had a soup breakfast and I gave her some apple cider vinegar in a syringe ( the Poly Vi Sol baby syringe...it is as small in diameter ( units) as a diabetic syringe and shorter...came in the box)

Now when I massage...it gurgles and mini burp..like a tummy digesting.

Got a very very small amount of liquid that I am more convinced is pus rather than food...color wa more cream color...the soup is gray ( chicken scratch flavored water and electrolytes)

I have a container of Activia yogurt plain in there but she refuses...she did not refuse that yesterday.

Gonna stay active on the massaging all day long.

When do I give her more apple cider vinegar? She got a pretty good dose of it already.

 

[teampenninglady]

ByGrace...are you asking me?

I don't know the answer...I know I am treating for it...but as far as I can see the only treatment is supportive care.

St. John's Wort in distilled h2o...there is a thread on this website that has the how to and dose.

Vitamins and selenium and LOVE!! That seems to be all I can figure they say can be done.

The chicken who is down from it will either pull thru....and live a bit longer but will be compromised and immunity will be for naught.

Supposedly every chicken has it...in some form or another.

Vaccinating a baby chick is only to build up a stronger immunity( fight) against it. after three days old...vaccines are worthless b/c it is now strictly up to the chicken itself.

If others in your flock don't seem to get it...they have it....they just have either been vaccinated on time or is just better at not succumbing to it.

I only have my pullet separated bc she has a crop problem too ( or at all....I am not positive she is succumbing to Marek's)

 

[bygrace53]

I am sorry about your sick girl. The one I eventually lost was having the gurgling sound as well and I had her in the house for some time. I got her to take some TUMs ground up and sprinkled on yogurt, and it seemed to help. But eventually she refused all food and water. Feel so helpless when I can't help them.

 

[teampenninglady]

Put her in the coop...rainy day today and with the fans blowing...it is nice and cozy in there. Put her brother in there too...today started DAY 1 of crowing collar lessons....thought since she need the company and I need to have him in a controlled environment while he learns the collar and I learn how to get it properly fitted and all....that they would do better in their own familiar settings.

She sprung to life...started scratching and doing chicken stuff ...so is he. He gets his lower beak caught once in a while but I cut a small slit in it and it seems to be doing the trick...just enough 'give' to allow him to correct it by himself. He seems relatively not freaked out and she seems really happy to be with him.

So, they both get to eat 'soup' and yogurt with vitamins and drink water with apple cider vinegar.

Probably good idea for both of them anyways since I need to watch his food intake with the collar on...have to make sure he can eat and his crop tolerates his collar.

If she has to eventually be culled or dies....I am going to be rehoming a Blue Laced red Wyandotte if anyone wants him.

I keep him for her....he raised her.

He is very very super sweet and very very respectful ( hen pecked type)...not macho at all.

 

[teampenninglady]

Crop is still swollen and pendulous this morning.

She id not perch on the roost but on the steps ( milk crates stacked as steps) leading up to the roost. She was with everyone...but was using the milk crate to support her. Not too sure i call that something to do with her problem, b/c i catch the other 2 young ones doing it from time to time...they are still young so it can vary on how they roost.

But her crop is as large as it was last night...but I can feel nothing in there and nothing comes out of her when I massage and flip her.

With it being that 'balloon like' it is mysterious why I can't get anything out to tell me what is happening.

I only ever got what could be considered as her soup stuff she has been eating.

No infection that I can point to and yet it seems to be swelling up even more so.

She sways still...but I do believe it is due to the swinging of the crop...it is probably like carrying a siamese twin on her chest.

Her attitude is same. She knows she is compromised and she watches her P's and Q's around the bigger ones...mainly b/c she is separated and then rejoined and they HAVE to come over and say something to her about it ( HENS are such witches)

But she is more than willing to hang out and be a chicken and eat and drink and scratch.

If she is not better ( or significantly worse) by Monday...I am going to decide on her fate.

In a quandry b/c Monday is labor day...so no vets in office.

STILL WELCOME ANY SUGGESTIONS!!!

I will stand in a corner and spit nickels if you think it will help....at this point, I will try anything for her.

THANKS!

 

[teampenninglady]

wanted to add that when she is with the others, it is when I pick up the feed or in the coop....only her feed is offered to her ( the soup) and if anyone is with her, they have to eat that too.

I also have a video of her and as soon as i can figure out how to upload it on here, I will

 

[bygrace53]

I have no idea if any of this will help. I've collected bits and pieces of things for these times when we are helpless to help them. Seems like you know a lot more than I do but here is what I have collected.

CROP ISSUES:

When a chicken eats, all food makes it's way from the beak, down the esophagus to the crop. Food eaten remains in the crop where it is stored and moistened. The crop functions as a sorting and holding tank. From the crop, the food is sorted into one of two "stomachs" either the proventriculus or the gizzard. The proventriculus is where the "easy" to digest food goes. Here it meets hydrochloric acid and digestive enzymes that do all of the work. Food that requires mechanical breakdown with muscular contractions and the use of small stones (grit) is sorted to the gizzard for processing. After the proventriculus and the gizzard have completed processing the food it all goes into the small intestines and continues processing through the remaining digestive tract. Sometimes, problems occur in the crop causing digestion to cease or not function properly. These are called impacted crop, sour crop and pendulous crop. A chicken that is experiencing a crop problem may show all or some of these symptoms including weight loss, lethargy, difficulty turning their head side to side and isolation.

Impacted Crop

Diagnosis~
The crop is located in the middle of the upper chest of the chicken. If it is firm it is full. A healthy full crop should be about the size of a plum and non-tender. Crops should be full at bedtime and empty in the morning. An impacted crop will be firm and large like a tennis ball and may be tender to touch.

Causes~
Eating long grasses, straw and hay
Eating foreign found objects such as plastic, rubber bands, metal
Infection (bacterial or fungal)
Ingesting large pieces of tough food such as meat/corncobs
Pendulous crop

Treatment~
Be sure the crop is emptying by feeling it first thing in the morning before the chicken eats. If the crop is firm, tender and the size of a tennis ball, then the crop is most likely impacted.

The treatment is to empty the crop. Try gently massaging the crop with your fingers as if you are kneading dough. Sometimes, this is enough to get things moving. It may require you to do this a couple of times per day for a few days.

During this time, feed your chicken soft bread (no crust) soaked in olive oil. The olive oil is thought to act as a lubricant and may help the crop to empty. Be sure that plenty of grit is available and do not feed this chicken any treats, seeds, scratch, fruits or vegetables during this time. These are the most difficult to digest. A clean source of water should also be available at all times. If all is better in a couple of days, then try some scrambled eggs and then in a couple days more, move onto just plain chicken feed.

However, after a couple of days, if you see no improvement, I highly recommend seeking veterinarian help. There are many articles on how to empty the crop on the internet. However, an inexperienced person doing this can easily kill a chicken by causing suffocation from the procedure and/or aspiration of crop contents into the lungs. In some cases, the crop even requires surgical emptying. Please do not attempt this on your own. Some states view this as animal cruelty without having proper surgical training and being able to administer pain medication and proper sedation of your animal.

Finally, if the impacted crop was caused by an infection, then it will needed to be treated.


Sour Crop

Diagnosis~
Sour crop is caused when the emptying of the crop is slowed or delayed. If food sits in the crop for too long, it can ferment and a yeast infection (fungal) can develop. A chicken that has a sour crop will have a large boggy feeling crop that is squishy and enlarged but not firm. You can hear gases as you move it around as well as gurgling. The chicken's breath will also smell yeasty and fermented. Often the crop is tender to touch.

Causes~
Improper emptying of crop
Impacted crop-partial or complete
Recent antibiotic use (causing secondary infection)
Infection (fungal)
Worms affecting rate of digestion

Treatment~
Sour crop is incredibly difficult to treat without medication from the vet. Chickens with sour crops require a one week course of prescribed antifungal medication (Nystatin). Be sure to treat the underlying cause as well. These include ensuring your flock is wormed, off recent medication and that their crop is emptying properly.

Adding probiotics and apple cider vinegar to their drinking water may also help as well.


Pendulous Crop

Sometimes the muscles in the crop can become damaged. Damage occurs from a previous impacted crop and/or eating heavy food. In this case, the chicken's crop will be full and enlarged and dangle toward the ground and can sway from side to side. It is important to confirm that this chicken's crop is emptying overnight. If not, this can lead to an impacted crop. Pendulous crops are usually treated with putting the chicken on water for a 24 hour period and letting the crop rest. It is recommended to reintroduce regular food with plenty of grit afterwards. Treats, seeds, scratch, fruits and vegetable consumption should be avoided until the crop has returned to normal functioning. If you discover the crop is not emptying, then it may require veterinarian assistance.


Promoting a Healthy Crop

Tips~
~Be sure your chickens have access to grit at all times.
~Avoid feeding your chicken large hard to digest foods.
~Clean up your yard from any foreign objects that chickens could potential ingest.
~Add apple cider vinegar (1 tablespoon per gallon) to their water supply. This helps to keep yeast levels balanced. Use plastic waterers, this will cause metal ones to rust.
~Feed your flock plain yogurt with live and active cultures to help promote the good gut bacteria.
~Adding probiotics in feed.
~Avoid feeding your flock sugary human food.
~Inspect your flock's crops now and then.
~Keep grasses short where the chickens free range (2 inches max)
~If your chickens eat straw and hay, avoid giving it to them.


When Tilly was 10 weeks old, she had been dining on long strands of grass in the yard and woods surrounding her coop. The girls and her loved free ranging and eating fresh goodies in the yard. She also developed a habit of eating straw from the bedding. Long pieces would hang from her mouth as she tried to swallow them down into her crop. Not long after, she had an impacted crop that required veterinarian treatment including emptying and at the same time treatment for a sour crop. With the vet's help, she made a full recovery. Her crop did lose most of the muscle tone and with large meals, it does become pendulous at times. I am glad, because from the beginning she has been and still is our head hen. Tilly is almost 2 years old.


Do you think there is any chance it is this? Maybe the swelling is her belly and feels as if its the crop:
EGG YOLK PERITONITIS:
So the symptoms are:
Heavy or labored breathing
Labored walking (because the tummy is close to the legs and is filled with fluid-she is heavier than normal)
Swollen tummy
Diarrhea/messy bottom
Loss of appetite
Listlessness
Comb starts to look sad and droopy
Off by herself etc..
Egg yolk peritonitis is inflammation and infection caused by egg yolk in the abdominal cavity. There is no way to prevent this condition, and from what I have read there is no cure. Here is an article with more information. http://www.avianweb.com/eggyolkperitonitis.html

Our chicken "Angel" has egg yolk peritonitis, but is rapidly recovering since we began giving her DURAMYCIN-10 (tetracyline hydrochloride soluble powder) just 1 day ago . I was really surprised how little information there is about this. It is often misdiagnosed as Egg Bound and sounds like many don't make it. The easiest way to tell the difference is to gently feel the (out) sides of the vent, if she is egg-bound you will be able to feel the hard eggs within. Our story: We recently found one of our girls collapsed and weak in the coop. Her abdomen and vent were swollen. First thought it's an e-coli infection, and contacted our local grange to get antibiotics. Her sister had just started laying, and she was likely due to start too. We figured it was probably related to this, and suspected her to be egg-bound. Tried a warm bath and gentle massage but did feel any eggs, instead the swelling felt spongy. After 5 days giving her SULMET (sulfadimethoxine) and praying, the swelling in her abdomen and vent were still increasing. We were desperate, searching the internet, calling the avian vet, etc and the most helpful thing I came across was this video on youtube, showing a chicken that had all the same symptoms , but had also recovered! Pretty much everything else I had read said the prognosis was poor and to puther in the pot. During the video the speaker holds up a bag of the antibiotic he used to treat his chicken: DURAMYCIN-10 I went back to the grange to get some. Very glad I did, because after only 24 hours she is nearly back to her old self; the swelling is down, she is active and standing more often, even making coos which she had not made for nearly a week! She is still quite lethargic and weak, but I think she is going to make it I will update this post. The video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPOVrzMO2QA

 

[teampenninglady]

I have to wait for the vet to open on Tuesday...but I will get Nysatin then if she is not improved.

As long as she is not acting worse...and she isn't...then I will hang on and see.

She seems content to hang out in the coop so that is good.

I have the coop blocked in such a way where the egg layers can come and go. Plus she has the fans blowing on her and seems relaxed and content about it.

Her brother is in with her....might as well stay and keep her company while he learns his collar and i watch his food intake and his crop...besides, there is a lavendar orpington that was raised with them and she is out with the flock. If Darlin gets culled, the Doodle is being rehomed and that means "Gussy' will be without them anyways...so she better get used to it and take up with the others and attach to them.

She seems so far okay about it.

Darlin is also only 3 months old...so egg problems is not likely...she still has a ways to go for that.

Thanks for staying with me on this, Bygrace...I think the rest has left me....

 

[teampenninglady]

Good News: My son and i was giving her her medicines and apple cider vinegar and she began to cough up puss.

So I flipped her over and WOW! the stuff that came out was definitely a week old.

No smell...not at all...but the contents was...I know...old.

It was....CANTALOPE SEEDS!!

I have some seeds I dried and packaged and put on the table in the garage...sat there for months...then I noticed it was gotton into and seeds were chewed on ( like by mice).

I cussed and swept them up off the table and went about my business...that was last week.

I did not put 2 + 2 together until there the seeds were in a splash of ewwwwww on the ground.

She is having normal poops so she is NOT blocked that way.

But it would seem they have been in there for a while.

crop still pendoulous...she only wobbles when the crop goes one way and she is 'swung' off balance....

still acts like a normal chicken...poop has substance and water in it...so she is hydrated.

adding a pic of what she came up with...it is gross o don't look if you have a weak tummy please:


Nasty pic ahead...so if you look I am sorry....




































I see no change in the size of her crop...but I think the apple cider vinegar is what is releasing the ook out. I hope the antibiotics eventually cure the reason she is so swollen. I can now feel some stuff in there...feels like more seeds floating around and I hear lots of balloon gurgling when i massage.

Still treating for Marek's...not gonna rule anything out but it felt good to get something worth seeing out of her.