d'Uccle color genetics

[TurtleFeathers]

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Could it be that the pattern develops over time? I know my mille fleur d'uccles took a while (a LONG while, actually) to show the mottled pattern, as did my mottled cochins.

 

[lilcrow]

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Hey Sis (Inside affectionate joke)
This is Great! I believe this is the formula for spangling, and yes I would believe it takes time to develop the pattern. I have a very good friend who is breeding Brahmas, and he has developed a Silver Laced Brahma and is working to put the finish on his Blue Laced Red Brahmas. He has been slightly 20 yrs in the making of his finished SL, and it came about from very careful selection of the best birds, bred to the best birds. Clearly he has selected and culled for type, but the bulk of the work has been selection for color since that is what he was breeding for. I've seen some pictures of his earlier birds, and you can see that he had the silver laced pattern, but it was far from being clear or correct according to the APA standard for silver laced.
Seeing this formula makes it easy to see why you can't just look at two birds and put them together, thinking that they will reproduce something close to what you are shooting for. I wonder how many people understand the CO gene and what it does. I know I certainly didn't and I would still feel trepidatious about trying to explain anything about it if someone asked me, but I know you HAVE to have it.
Nancy

 

[wegotchickens]

Well, I feel a tad better about not understanding MF genetics. Invested in a good genetics book with my birthday $ this year.
Have had quite a few moments when I could feel the little lightbulb going off above my head, lol.

Am seriously aggravating my birds as I constantly pick them up and pick through their feathers examing them more closely than ever before. And I am feeling a lot more excited about breeding again.

Every single mature d'Uccle hen I own is now either setting a nest or raising her brood.
Every MF chick has all it's toenails

What I would like to find is a darker MF roo. My boy is a lovely mahogany red, but I think a bit more brown would benefit my birds. Sadly, the ones I had my eye on last year all died last winter and I wasn't able to reach their owner until this spring

 

[Doug the Chicken Man]

Which book on Genetics did you get.
I am trying to find a good one.

I learn a lot on here but a book might help to.

 

[wegotchickens]

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Doug, the book I got was expensive, in very limited supply, and I had to wait for it to be shipped form overseas. But it is bar none the best book I've ever invested in! The photos are clear, and there are a lot of them. And since this is a recent publication it covers breeds/ colors we're seeing now.

Genetics of Chicken Colours by Sigrid Van Dort, David Hancock & Friends

This book was not written by a scientist, and Sigrid makes a confusing subject easier to understand. Gene combos are compared to soup recipes, and how to make certain flavors 'stand out' (ie gene expression). Also, how to see the expression of different sets of genes in birds that appear identical but come from different combinations.

If you want to see if there are any copies left, let me know and I'll PM you the contact info.

 

[wegotchickens]

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I WAS CLOSE!!

Page 75 of my new book:

"Lavender is very near to a gene that stops feather growth. The feathers stop growing forever. Don't breed with these birds. Recessive genes are dangerous; you don't see them in one dose. Two doses give the above result."

The problem is definitely with the porcelain boy, since the issue never occured with my lav boy.
I will not be repeating this experiment.

I don't want to keep the porcelain roo, anyway. I don't know his parentage, but he gave me what I wanted in my butterscotch birds. Better than I expected, as it turns out!!
He must have buff contributing to that yellow, because with the splash hen he's thrown creamy white birds as well as GN, or splash birds. The splash birds have very little blue in them. But the creamy birds are showing no blue and are gorgeous, so far. I have exactly 50% of each type of bird from this breeding.

If my breeding program didn't have to fit into my backyard I'd keep this boy and let him throw me more creamy birds. They are so elegant looking!

But I already have plans for these current, cream-colored ladies

So, anybody nearby need a arrogant, mostly yellow, porcelain rooster? He can't stay in the bachelor pen because he picks fights. He can't stay with his broody girlfriend because he messes with her. He can't stay with the 'teenagers' because he's mean to them constantly. So he's living in the shed brooder at night and the temp pen during the day.

 

[Doug the Chicken Man]

You are to far and one international border stop away or my daughter would be drooling.

what does your book say about lemon millefluer.
by Playing with henks calculator I think but not sure crossing the lemon millfluer mail to a black millefluer hen=black paterned gold millfluer as previoulsy stated.
Now would the F1's be split lemon.
When the hens are put back with DAD they would create 25% lemon mille hen, 25 % Lemon millefluer Roo, 25% black patterned millefluer, 25% black patterned millefluer rooster?
Thereby increasing my number of lemon from 1 to more.

 

[wegotchickens]

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That's okay, your daughter has me drooling, too, over the lemon boy.

Since you don't know the parentage of the Lemon roo it's pretty much guess work, I think.
All you can do is forge ahead and see what you get. Then report back here, of course

Your math makes sense, but there could be some weird thing between split genes on this bird that could throw some wonky results. Does that make sense? I'm still learning about uniform color changing genes & color restricting genes, but I think these could affect your cross.
I'd still go for it, of course.
Actually, if you have other colors of d'ccles I'd be tempted (if the space was available) to cross him with other colors as well. The results could help you determine how his code is expressed more clearly.

One of the biggest things I learned from my new book is that MF d'Uccles are such an old breed that no one really understands the genetics. Made me smile to read that (page 200).

That's why the calculators go nuts, I think, and give confusing results.

Doug, do you know badly I'd like to have eggs from your crossings?

 

[Doug the Chicken Man]

So the possible combinations from the birds we have are as follows.

Black Patterned Mille Fluer to black patterned Lemon Mille Fluer 2 hens
Blue Patterned Mille Fluer to black patterned Lemon Mille Fluer 1 hen
Lavender to black patterned Lemon Mille Fluer 1 hen

It could be interesting to see what comes out but it will take about 2 years to see what we get. and I may have a lead on some local porcealin.

Need more coops for all the birds we already have not to mention any new ones.

 

[wegotchickens]

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That's the hardest part of all this. The waiting to see what we get. With less complex birds we'd know by adulthood.

Yes, I wish I had more coops, too. I'm resorting to heavy use of legbands and a new game called "Musical Chickens".