d'uccles- which rooster to keep for breeding

[lilcrow]

Nathan, these last couple of pictures are of the hatchery trio? I'm not going to be very good at criticizing the finer points, but I think they have real potential. I'm only guessing, but maybe the cockerel is carrying his wings a little high, but only a little and his beard may be a little light in color, but I think that may be a personal taste kind of thing. I can see tips on his tail now and I'm thinking that you're saying he's pretty young, so I like that. He should go on and have nice tips on his tail. He has the beginning of nice, uniform wing bars. Is his comb a little coarse, or grainy? I can't really tell in the picture. The hens look nice, I just can't tell much about them at this age. They change SO much in such a short time, I'd say they definitely warrant time to mature. They're good enough for that.
Oh by the way, I got the pictures of the hen I was telling you about and managed to upload them to photobucket so I can entertain you with them.

The most gorgeous hen in the world

Her bad side

 

[Boggy Bottom Bantams]

well Nathan,
He has a nice thick body, good bull neck, look like decent foot feathering,beard is medium could be heavier but not bad, The only bad I see is, yep he's color is wrong, not enough black dots in the millie pattern, white in tail is virtually none existent, wings should be lower,and he's a little orangish, but never scrap one til they are at least a year old. Like lilcrow said, they change so much so fast.
But when you do, I have the same deal, an old man that's been friends of the family for ever, I let him have the ol culls.

But if he's not a year old yet, I'd hang on to him, he does have potential, the hens look pretty good.

 

[NateinFL]

Thats a beautiful hen Nancy, could easily fit in my pocket

(I snuck guppies on a plane in my carry-on but that was way before 9-11

)

The trio in the picture are 8 months old now. Thanks for the critiquing on mine. It always helps to have a second opinion, of course everyone that sees them thinks they're "pretty" but i needed a critical opinion, I want show quality and nothing less.

BBB: If I keep him and breed him to a hen with proper coloring, then breed those male offspring back to the hen, that would be line breeding, right? And that would lead to better birds, is that correct? I'm fairly new to all this, but I did spend almost a whole day doing research on line breeding vs. inbreeding. I know to NEVER breed siblings.

 

[NateinFL]

This is what my Milles look like from Ideal. They are 2 months old now. Just look at the difference in phenotypes here

The one on the tree branch I kept her from a batch of eggs I got from Kim at Camelot Farms. I dont know what will develop into what since I'm fairly new at this so I'm keeping them all and taking notes on development for next go around.

 

[lilcrow]

Guppies! What a gas, I love it!

I take it they were fancy fan tails? How did they handle the bangin' around and lack of air? Of course guppies are "tuff little buggers." When I was very little I grossly abused a half dozen of them when I changed their tank once, by leaving them over night in a bowl. Poor things, they made it, but I look back at some of the things my poor animals endured from me and I feel so sorry for them.
I was well intentioned, but so ignorant.

I love the science of linebreeding Nathan, and you're absolutely correct about not breeding siblings. Some folks do it, but you've really got to know what you're doing. You have to know what you've got, and by that I mean you have to know the history of the genetics of your birds. This means you've been their breeder for many generations and you know practically every possible fault that they carry. Let's say you came up with two "supper birds" that were full siblings and you knew that there was a low probability of serious birth defects or major conformation faults, then a breeding of those two birds could yield a bird or a few birds if you are REALLY lucky that are so prepotent that you could breed them to a cocker spaniel and you'd still get a mille fleur d'Uccle. The gene pool would be SO shallow and tight that it would reproduce its excellent type and qualities no matter what you bred it to, and actually you'd most like get something BETTER than the parent because you get the benefit of the thing called "hybrid vigor." Any time you take that kind of a gene pool and outcross it you get that But I believe this is a practice best left to the experts. You have to be willing to cull ruthlessly. There's a much increased probability of birth defects, which means culling at birth, and then chicks lacking vigor as they grow, etc., and so forth. I'm just not cut out for it. Linebreed, as I understand the "term," from my years of breeding in the past, is considered uncle to niece, aunt to nephew, and so forth. Mother to son, father to daughter is actually inbreeding, but is generally practiced in chickens and considered the norm, and preferred way to fix traits I believe. If you breed your offspring back to a parent that is OK, you just want to make sure that you are selecting the best offspring and that its faults don't echo the faults of the parent. (I hope that make sense.) I've heard so many people talk about breeding back and when I see who they've selected to breed to who, I'm just appalled. I'm actually talking more about my history in dogs and horses. I've got a lot more years of experience with them than with chickens. At this point, poultry genetics appear to behave very differently than mammals. I don't know if that is real or imagined on my part. I always thought that genetics were genetics whether it was snow peas or chickens, but that may be an over simplification.

 

[NateinFL]

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Yes, and they were being sold as feeder fish for cheap! I was a kid then, they probably did see them in the x-ray but overlooked it. lol.

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I love your analogies!

I am going to keep my rooster I think since ya'll said he isnt horrible. I am on a mission though, I'm getting top quality mille fleur, Florida State Fair is in January can't wait!

 

[Boggy Bottom Bantams]

BBB: If I keep him and breed him to a hen with proper coloring, then breed those male offspring back to the hen, that would be line breeding, right? And that would lead to better birds, is that correct? I'm fairly new to all this, but I did spend almost a whole day doing research on line breeding vs. inbreeding. I know to NEVER breed siblings


Yep, That would be condsidered line breeding and no, sibling to sibling isnt a good route, line breeding only once or twice is fine, more than that aint real good on the birds either. You have one hen that looks to have better coloring than the other, the other looks to be colored like the male, so probley wont be much improvement there.
Yes though, If you can find a properly colored hen or roo elswhere to add to yours, it wouldnt be hard to get some very nice birds before long ( 1 or 2 generations). Like I said, the build of the birds you have, all of them, looks great, the color is just washed out a bit, and not enough black and white mottleing.

I hear ya on the Ideal chicks you have there too, quite a array aint it...Like you said, keep 'em all, it's hard to tell on milie patterned birds til their first adult molt, after that, you pretty much have what you have.
Good luck, if I run across any great looking ones, I'll forward their info to you.

 

[NateinFL]

Awesome, THANK YOU for the advice, we're all here for the same thing I think, to improve the breed. Now that you've said it, I will be getting that washed out female a good home. No sense in keepin her just to sell inferior eggs on Ebay or what not. They are a tight group, those 3, but I'll slip in some of my Ideal hens in when they are of age. That is my plan, anyways.

If you have any contacts of where I could get some GOOD quality babies, even if its in GA, I'll be glad to make the trip.

Thanks Again,
Nathan

 

[Boggy Bottom Bantams]

Just saw your new post, we must have popped them on at the same time. Great on the fair birds! you're starting to sound like me now, get something in ya head, and aint gone quit till you're happy, right!!!



Hey Lilcrow,


Got me curious last night with the import stuff, so I went back to the NPIP website and pulled up the import laws. They are starting to relax them some according to them. Ground shipped birds and eggs can now be brought in from Canada pretty much with no big deal, air shipped ones still have to be quarantined for a month.

As for Europe, they have an APROVED COUNTRIES list and an UNAPROVED list. The ones approved, can have eggs shipped in to you, and go straight on home with you, and birds can be brought in as well, but must be quarantined for a month.
Unapproved ones, have to have the eggs hatched at a USDA facility and then quarantined the chicks for a month, same with birds.
In any case, you must have a Importation permit, the seller has to provide all the proper export papers and have a licensed vet certificate to accompany them.
Then they also have a banned countries list, which is mainly stuff like Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran, etc, you can get their point there!LOL
But if interested, go to the NPIP website and click on the import/export link for all the details..
Aubrey

 

[Boggy Bottom Bantams]

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I'd try those two I mentioned earlier, Brain Massingale, and Ron Tallent off the d'uccle club. I know first hand, theirs are awsome. The host the show in north Ga, and pretty much just work with those breeds, well d'uccles only on Ron, and booted bantams too on Brian, but they are very nice, their info is on the members list of the site..
I'll also keep an eye out for you too for others