EDUCATIONAL INCUBATION & HATCHING CHAT THREAD, w/ Sally Sunshine Shipped Eggs

[Sally Sunshine]

Quote: I see

 

[Chaos18]

I see

So hopefully they don't die before they start laying.

 

[daxigait]

I wish I had some of the fruit right now.
The first things around here are asperigus (sp?) and strawberries.

 

[Sally Sunshine]

PLEASE TURN MORE THAN 3 times a day! That is the absolute Minimum!!​

Setting Eggs & Turning
It is important to ALWAYS wash your hands before handling your hatching eggs!

It is likewise important to SANITIZE your incubator AND equipment before AND after use!

Omphalitis, yolk sack infection is caused by a bacterium that enters through the porous egg shell and easily kills embryo's and newly hatched chicks. Unfortunately, incubation conditions are ideal for breeding bacteria as well as incubating eggs.
​

WHY IS EGG TURNING IMPORTANT​

EVEN WITH SHIPPED EGGS?​

Shipped Eggs = Change Of Plans! post #53845​

Mark eggs, using a pencil, with an X on one side and an O on the other. Make sure to turn the eggs at least 3 times a day, or odd number of times. Turning by hand they should always be turned an odd amount of times and move them to a different part of the tray to protect them from temperature variation. You basically roll the eggs with your fingers/palm from X to O. It is important to NOT ROLL the eggs in the same direction every time. Improper rolling can cause the chalazae that holds the yolk in place to tear. Turning the egg prevents the embryo from touching and attaching to the membrane inside the egg. The most convenient way to turn eggs is to purchase an egg turner. Take extra precautions when turning eggs during the first week of incubation. The developing embryos have delicate blood vessels that rupture easily when severely jarred or shaken, thus killing the embryo.
​

Failure to turn eggs during incubation CLEARLY​

reduces hatchability in every scholarly study and every clinical trial. ​

Storage conditions has a GREAT effect on malpositions, as does turning and a few other things..... there are many many abstracts and studies which will point out the most detrimental turning times, KEEP IN MIND ALTHOUGH they point out these detrimental times, this does in no way suggest to stop turning them early.



a note: Please double check where you pick up information, and perhaps see how many hatches someone has before we take advice from them. I know that doesn't sound like me in that comment, but I get upset when people are told things that are hearsay and can harm hatch/chicks in the long run. If I had more time I would fill this page up with info as I do best. If you find more information on the relevance of turning to support the stopping its important I know so that I can change information on here.





Effects of Turning Duration During Incubation on Embryo Growth,
Utilization of Albumen, and Stress Regulation
We concluded that egg turning during incubation al-
lowed a rational use of albumen by the developing embryo
and, therefore, influenced embryonic growth. The duration
of turning also showed some relationship to stress control
in the embryo and maturation of the HPA. Lower cortico-
sterone ratios at 60 to 150 min after ACTH injection indi-
cated that it is not advisable to stop turning around d 15
of incubation. Considering together the effects of turning
on albumen use and the control of corticosterone levels, it
is recommended to turn eggs during incubation at least
until d 12 or 18 but not stopping turning at d 15 of incu-
bation.

http://www.aviagen.com/assets/Tech_Center/BB_Resources_Tools/Hatchery_How_Tos/08HowTo8EggTurningEN.pdf
Also SEE HERE for DETAILED Scientific explanations of WHY TURNING IS IMPORTANT!
HUBBARDS GUIDES: http://www.hubbardbreeders.com/managementguides/Incubation%20guide%20(english).pdf

WHAT FACTORS ARE IMPORTANT FOR EGG TURNING?
Frequency of Turning, Angle of Turning, Smoothness/Gentleness of Turning
SIGNS OF TURNING INADEQUACY
Increased Deaths
Malpositions
Sticky Chicks due to unabsorbed Albumen

The effects of turning during a critical period for turning, from 3 to 7 days of incubation, were also recorded. Generally, failure to turn eggs retarded growth of the area vasculosa. Turning during the critical period stimulated the extent of growth of the area vasculosa by day 7 of incubation and of subsequent embryonic growth by day 14. Incubation at low temperature resulted both in reduced expansion of the area vasculosa and retarded embryonic growth in a pattern similar to that observed for unturned eggs. It is suggested that turning stimulates development of blood vessels in the area vasculosa via localized increases in blood pressure.

We were able to demonstrate that it is critical to turn eggs for at least the first three
days of incubation and better for the first seven. READ MORE HERE and HERE​

Relevance of turning Written by Gerd de Lange see page for full info.....I FOUND the one that I actually understood here:

http://www.pasreform.com/academy/frequently-asked-questions/incubation/26-relevance-of-turning.html



Broody hens provide optimum conditions for embryos developing in the eggs they are sitting on. The brood patch provides heat from one direction only, and the eggs at the side of the patch are cooler than those in the middle of the nest. However, because the broody hen regularly turns and moves the eggs in the nest, uniform egg temperature is achieved.
In commercial incubation, we try to mimic the natural conditions in the nest. From the point of view of uniform egg temperature turning of eggs seems to be of less importance in modern incubators. Are there other reasons for turning eggs?
As summarized by Deeming (2002), egg turning is essential to normal development for several reasons.
Egg turning

• Prevents adhesion of the embryo to the inner shell membrane.
• stimulates the rate of development of the area vasculosa (the membrane which grows around the yolk and is rich in blood vessels). The area vasculosa is important for sub-embryonic fluid formation, as well as for yolk uptake later in incubation.
• allows normal transfer of albumen proteins into the amniotic fluid, promoting optimum use of the albumen.
• supports the growth of the chorio-allantois (the blood vessels right under the shell) to maximise oxygen absorption.
• embryos in unturned eggs grow at a lower rate compared to embryos in eggs turned each hour over 90˚.
• facilitates movements of the embryo into the normal hatching position and reduces the incidence of malpositions in unhatched embryos.

Advice

• Check the turning device before the start of each incubation cycle, as turning failures, depending on the moment of occurence, are detrimental to results.
• Check and maintain the turning device regularly, to prevent a breakdown during incubation.
• Make sure that turning does not produce shocks or jolts, as this adversely affects hatchability and chick quality.
• If necessary, check and adjust the turning angle: 45˚ is optimal.
• Not turning for the first 12 hours in the setter is advised, based on our practical experience and especially when eggs are transported to the hatchery on the same day as setting. Eggs need some rest time to restore their ‘internal balance’.
• Turning is not absolutely necessary after 15 days of incubation. Especially in incubators with insufficient cooling capacity, it can be beneficial to leave the eggs in a horizontal position to facilitate increased air flow (cooling over the eggs). In some modern setters, there is also the option of turning to three different positions, e.g. 45 minutes each in right, horizontal and left position).

http://ps.oxfordjournals.org/content/82/3/357.short

Fertile hatchability was increased by turning 96 times per day compared to either 24 or 48 times per day. This improvement was due to a reduction in late embryonic mortality.

Sharing some research......
CAM= chorio-allantoic membrane
Turning should be done through day 17 of incubation, after which the chick is positioning itself for the hatching process. The most important period is from day 1 through day 12, when the chorion and allantois are developing and eventually fuse, forming the chorioallantois. During this time the most critical period is from day 3 through day 7, when the circulatory system is developing and beginning to function. Researchers have found that turning is not necessary past as early as day 14 of chicken egg incubation, although most systems continue to turn the egg through days 17 to 19.http://extension.missouri.edu/publications/DisplayPub.aspx?P=G8353


need to see this in a clinical study or figure out how to read these references!
Dekalb Hatchery Manual. 1990. Dekalb, Ill.: Dekalb Poultry Research Veterinary and Technical Services.
Improving Hatchability, Taylor, Gib. 1994, Medina, Ohio: Chick Master Incubator Company.

Originally Posted by cochins1088

Ok, here's my goose egg. I'm 100% sure that it's on day 27 so it should hatch within the next 3 days. Temperatuers ran a steady 99.5 degrees checked using 5 different thermometers. Air cell development is perfect and I checked it by weighing the egg weekly. The emrbyo is also very active.

I will do anything to get this egg to hatch, so if you have any advice, please share. This egg doesn't look like it's ready to hatch.

Here's a top view. It looks normal, but there is more space in the small end of the egg.



Here's the clear spot in the small end of the egg that I was talking about. The inner membrane with blood vessels never reached it. The spot is stationary and does not move when I turn the egg.



Here's a better picture. You can see the clear spot, the membrane with the blood vessels, and then the dark area is the embryo.





Look at how little this chor membrane went down! hardly at all!

Here is the membrane from freshly hatched White Faced Spanish




see how the membrane has the veins in it outer near shell ??

CAM aka chorioallantoic membrane

they are not that big in this photo, but you get the idea, you just have tons of tiny veining in those eggs, and you can easily see they have no more blood it they do its been dried inside.

 

[Sally Sunshine]

HYGROMETER &
THERMOMETER SUGGESTIONS.......

you may want to pick up a hygro/thermo that has a high low temp reading on it as well... that way you can see what it swings to at night.

READ what the accuracy is on the one you want to purchase FIRST (example: Accuracy to ±0.9°F (±0.5°C))

post #262

Quote:

I haven't used a hygrometer in a long time. I weigh the eggs periodically as an alternative.

http://www.amazon.com/Egg-o-meter-A-Better-Egg-Thermometer/product-reviews/B004XNMH92/ref=cm_cr_dp_see_all_btm?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1&sortBy=recent

The Egg-O-Meter has a sensor that is embedded in a synthetic egg which closely reflects the temperature of a real egg.
Egg-O-Meter

| Egg Incubator Hatching Thermometer - A Better Egg Thermometer!
From: $24.99 http://incubatorwarehouse.com/index.php ... l?___SID=U

The temperature sensor is embedded inside a synthetic egg which more accurately resembles the thermal mass of the eggs you are incubating.

Thermoworks precision instruments at a wide range of prices:
http://www.thermoworks.com/products/low_cost/
http://www.thermoworks.com/products/humidity/
Taking SHELL TEMPS post #30771
How an Ear/Medical thermometer Works post #34345
Brinsea Incubator Thermometers click HERE
Strombergs Thermometers click HERE Hygrometers click HERE Digital Thermo/Hygros click Here
Hova-Bator GQF Incubator Thermometer / Hygrometer (Wet Bulb) 3018 post #32892

Quote:
Brinsea Incubator Thermometers click HERE
Strombergs Thermometers click HERE Hygrometers click HERE
Digital Thermo/Hygros click Here
Hova-Bator GQF Incubator Thermometer / Hygrometer (Wet Bulb) 3018 post #32892

 

[DwayneNLiz]

@DwayneNLiz
 , got any pictures of you riding? Would *love* to see them.   

Lol no money to buy proofs, maybe a couple my dad took doing dressage somewhere

Off to go see kitties at the animal shelter.

have fun!!

 

[BantyChooks]

Sunshine, here's an incomplete CAM on a quail:

 

[Akrnaf2]

I wish I had some of the fruit right now.
The first things around here are asperigus (so?) and strawberries.

You don't have there, where you live, places that sell imprted fruits?

 

[dan26552]

  anyone wanna bet she brings home a dog and a rabbit and forgets about the cat?

 

[daxigait]

You don't have there, where yiu live, places that sell imprted fruits?

Most are just not really fresh.