EE/Ameraucana frustration

[Bullitt]

Probably 99% of the chicken owner population are not members of the APA an are free to call an sell there birds under any name they see fit. Unless they are claming to meet standard or be show show stock the it does not matter.

Yes, anyone can call their chickens anything they want. But there have to be recognized standards for a pure breed. A person can call a Rhode Island Red a Barred Rock if they like, but that chicken will not be recognized by an organization as a Barred Rock.

I can call a black and yellow dog a Labrador Retriever, but there is no standard for a black and yellow Labrador Retriever.

 

[rebelcowboysnb]

Quote:
No it dont. Pure breed dogs predate recorded history. Breeders would breed for what they like an give it a name. Showing an standards are a new thing. They are not required nor do they control breeding an names. Standards are only for showing an only apply to the show group involved.

There are thousands of breeds of all kinds of animals that have no standard but they are breeds.

 

[Bullitt]

Of course people have been breeding animals for thousands of years. People have to decide on standards for a breed also. These may not be written standards, but the standards must be understood.

Most of the chicken breeds were created by selective breeding. How do you know you have a Rhode Island Red or a Barred Plymouth Rock if there are no agreed standards?

As I mentioned before, without standards you can call a Rhode Island Red a Barred Plymouth Rock and no one can argue any different. What difference does it make without standards?

If there are no standards, how is it that people here can name the breed of chicken by looking at a picture of the chicken? They can name the breeds because there are recognized standards for breeds. Other chickens are called mixed breeds or mutts.

 

[redhen]

Because it doesn't meet the standards. It's the same reason that if two pure breed chickens have offspring that do not meet the standard, then that offspring does not qualify.

Pure breed animals can be created by selecting for certain traits. "If I take my Czech working line GSD to an AKC dog show, no one in the show field would be interested in him."

Exactly. For people who care about breeding, it matters. Your German Shepherd does not meet the standard for the breed.

I think mutts make the best dogs, and maybe the best chickens also. But for breeding standards, it matters.

Here is a description of the Labrador Retriever by the AKC.

Size, Proportion and Substance
Size--The height at the withers for a dog is 22½ to 24½ inches; for a ***** is 21½ to 23½ inches. Any variance greater than ½ inch above or below these heights is a disqualification. Approximate weight of dogs and bitches in working condition: dogs 65 to 80 pounds; bitches 55 to 70 pounds.

Here is a description from the Ameraucana Breeders Club: http://www.ameraucana.org/faq.html

[COLOR=000080][SIZE=13.5pt]What are the major differences between Ameraucana and Araucana chickens?[/SIZE][/COLOR]
Both breeds lay eggs with shells colored various shades of blue, have pea combs, and should have red earlobes. Beyond that few similarities exist in specimens meeting the requirements of recognized poultry standards. Perhaps 99 percent of chickens sold as Araucanas (or Ameraucanas) by commercial hatcheries are actually mongrels (aka Easter Egg chickens), meeting the requirements of neither breed.
According to the American Poultry Association (APA), the Araucana breed must be rumpless (no tail) and have ear tufts. Ear tufts are clumps of feathers growing from small tabs of skin usually found at or near the region of the ear openings. This feature is unique in the U.S. to the Araucana breed. This trait is nearly always lethal to unhatched chicks when inherited from both parents. Tufted Araucanas, therefore, are always genetically impure, i.e., they don't breed true and will always produce a percentage of "clean-faced" offspring.
The Ameraucana breed, on the other hand, has a tail and sports muffs and beard in the facial area. These characteristics are true-breeding. Other requirements of both breeds may be found in the APA's Standard of Perfection and in the American Bantam Association's (ABA) Bantam Standard.


[COLOR=000080][SIZE=13.5pt]What are Easter Egg chickens?[/SIZE][/COLOR]
The Ameraucana Breeders Club defines an Easter Egg chicken or Easter Egger as any chicken that possesses the blue egg gene, but doesn’t fully meet any breed descriptions as defined in the APA and/or ABA standards.  Further, even if a bird meets an Ameraucana standard breed description, but doesn’t meet a variety description or breed true at least 50% of the time it is considered an Easter Egg chicken.

Yeah, i dont know...I'm sooo thick headed,...
I still say a pure breed dog is a pure breed....
They may not be able to be in a SHOW... but they are STILL pure bred labs....
Again, i'm stubborn and dumb, dont mind me....

 

[kathyinmo]

A breed is a group of domestic animals with a homogeneous (of the same kind, uniform) appearance, behavior, and other characteristics that distinguish it from other animals of the same species.
When bred together, animals of the same breed pass on these predictable traits to their offspring, and this ability—known as "breeding true"—is a requirement for a breed. The offspring produced as a result of breeding animals of one breed with other animals of another breed are known as crossbreeds or mixed breed.

 

[redhen]

So heres my other question... LOL.
If i breed 2 papered black labs and they have a black and white spotted pup...
Are those 2 parents STILL PURE labs?? Or no, because they didnt produce ALL breed accepted colors?
I still dont get it... cant get my thick head around it...

 

[kathyinmo]

So heres my other question... LOL.
If i breed 2 papered black labs and they have a black and white spotted pup...
Are those 2 parents STILL PURE labs?? Or no, because they didnt produce ALL breed accepted colors?
I still dont get it... cant get my thick head around it...

Well, I don't know about dogs, but in chickens that produce some odd or unexpected color, it is called a sport.

 

[lucky123]

How can anyone say as long as they don't claim its sq they can say its anything they want when selling eggs? For example, these birds came from two different breeders, claiming they were heritage rir's. The cockeral is a heritage rir, the pullet on the right is nothing but a hatchery hybrid. You mean you see nothing wrong with someone claiming to sell eggs from a heritage breed when all they really have is hatchery mixed breeds? If they were honest they would say they had hatchery, but they are dishonest to get more money by saying they have heritage stock.? This is dis-honest and a cheater in my book, but people have different opinions on whats right and wrong.

 

[lucky123]

 

[cjwaldon]

Exactly! You can have production RIR, hatchery RIR, show RIR, heritage RIR, etc., etc. But you still have RIRs! Why is this any different with Ameraucanas? I'm ok with an Easter Egger being nothing more than a mixed breed chicken that happens to look like an Ameraucana. However, many Ameraucana breeders are splitting hairs and insisting that if bird does not meet every requirment of the standard, it must therefor not be an Ameraucana but instead must be a mixed breed and must be called an Easter Egger. Why is the terminology such a sticking point with Ameraucanas but not other breeds? For example, RIRs. I have RIRs. I have hatchery RIRs. I like my RIRs. I don't represent they are anything other than RIRs. I don't represent they are show quality. I don't represent they are heritage. But I do believe that my RIRs are still RIRs. If I was an Ameraucana breeder, I should therefor come up with a different name for my RIRs to signify that they may or may not meet the standards, and if they don't meet the standards they must by default be mixed breed chickens and must be called something other than RIRs.