EE/Ameraucana frustration

[dainerra]

A black lab to a yellow lab makes a lab. Not a mutt. A lab is a lab is a lab.
You can have all the colors in one litter as well as getting abyellow lab from two black parents.

 

[kathyinmo]

From Ameraucanas vs Easter Eggers, to dogs and horses......

 

[BarnGoddess01]

A black lab to a yellow lab makes a lab. Not a mutt. A lab is a lab is a lab.
You can have all the colors in one litter as well as getting abyellow lab from two black parents.

I stand corrected. Must work the same as Blue and Black Ameraucanas - and, no doubt, benefits from some understanding of genetics!!

 

[Frost Homestead]

I breed both EEs and ameraucanas. It IS frustrating when someone markets their EEs as ameraucanas. It cheapens the work I do as a breeder to keep my line clean and up to standard. I do think that most people do it out of ignorance. Hatcheries though are a different matter. They should know better. It is an easy fix to label what they sell as Easter Eggers. Most people won't care as long as they lay pretty eggs.

I disagree with the notion that a pure ameraucana crossed with another pure ameraucana can produce anything but an ameraucana. I don't know why we don't just call them non-standard ameraucanas and be done with it. In my head an easter egger is a pure ameraucana crossed with something else. I get mine by having an ameraucana rooster over buff orps, wyandottes, welsummers and barred rocks. None of the offspring breed true and you never know what you will get with combs and egg color. They do pretty consistently come out with cheek muffs. Combs are mostly pea, but I do get the occasional single comb in my EEs.

Breeding AM to AM though always gets bluish eggs, pea combs, cheek muffs and the right colored legs. Feather colors might not fit the standard if I breed a splash to a wheaten, but technically the bird is still an ameraucana. I understand saying "This bird is pure wheaten ameraucana" or "pure blue ameraucana", but AmxAm gets you AM. Saying that it is magically an EE because the feather color is off is silly.

That sort of sematic bickering also cheapens the breeding work because it opens the door for people to say "Oh well, they are just being snobby about color." and assume then that the hatcheries are correct. If the APA would just say "AM x with anything else equals Easter egger" and "ameraucana x ameraucana equals ameraucana" it would be easier to pursuade the hatcheries that they are using false advertising.

I completely agree. I know some folks feel differently about it, but I have a 'sport'. She came from a blue wheaten x blue wheaten pairing. She is practically solid white, with very little wheaten color in her hackles. Other than that she conform to the standard. She's an Ameraucana, there's no way I would call her an EE, she's just a sport, a pretty genetic fluke. I also have Splash Wheaten, they are not accepted but are bred from purebred birds and are I've never heard anyone call them EE.

 

[rebelcowboysnb]

Again, standards only apply to someone claiming to breed to the standard or breeding to show where that standard is recognized. These breeding organizations only make rules that apply to there members. If you go buy a AKC whatever you are expecting a dog that is to the AKC breed standard. When you buy one that is not AKC why would you expect it to adhere to the AKC standard.

If you buy a Ameraucana that the breeder says it to standard or show quality you can expect it to be to standard. If it is not throw a fit. If you buy a Ameraucana that they do not claim to be to standard or show quality then you cant expect it to be.

It would be different if the Ameraucana breeding club had invented the name an copyrighted it but the name predates the current APA standard breed an predates the breeding club so nether the APA or the breeding club has authority over the name or how it is used.


Personal opinion... The AKC an the like standards an shows were the worst thing to ever happen to most dog breeds.

 

[redhen]

Just read through this whole thread. I've never unstood why people are willing to good feed and money into inferior animals. Why not try for the best. Rebel Cowboy, now I understand why we lost the war of Northern Aggression.

Nevermind.. :/

 

[Bullitt]

Again, standards only apply to someone claiming to breed to the standard or breeding to show where that standard is recognized. These breeding organizations only make rules that apply to there members. If you go buy a AKC whatever you are expecting a dog that is to the AKC breed standard. When you buy one that is not AKC why would you expect it to adhere to the AKC standard.

If you buy a Ameraucana that the breeder says it to standard or show quality you can expect it to be to standard. If it is not throw a fit. If you buy a Ameraucana that they do not claim to be to standard or show quality then you cant expect it to be.

It would be different if the Ameraucana breeding club had invented the name an copyrighted it but the name predates the current APA standard breed an predates the breeding club so nether the APA or the breeding club has authority over the name or how it is used.


Personal opinion... The AKC an the like standards an shows were the worst thing to ever happen to most dog breeds.

I must say I completely agree. If you want show quality, you should go to a breeder. If I order from a hatchery, I do not expect a chicken to perfectly match the standards, but I expect it to be pretty close.

I also agree that the AKC has ruined many dog breeds, particularly hunting dog breeds. For example, the Irish Setter used to be a good hunting dog. But people liked the long hair and bred them for show, which ruined them as hunting dogs. That is why there are now show lines and hunting lines for many breeds.

By the way, Labrador Retrievers come in black, chocolate, and yellow, according to the AKC. You can breed any of the colors together and can possibly get any of the three colors out. In the discussion before I was talking about a half black/half yellow Labrador Retriever. It wouldn't meet AKC standards, but it might be a darn good hunting dog.

The best dog I have ever seen was a half Labrador Retriever/half Irish Setter (a mutt). I am guessing that many of the "mutt" chickens might be some of the best chickens, and they would be more resistant to disease.

 

[Frost Homestead]

Just thought I'd throw this out there, this is Zelda (she's only 20 weeks old in this pic). This is my white sport that came from a blue wheaten x blue wheaten cross. She's furiously digging in the compost pile in the picture. I consider her an Ameraucana, but I probably wouldn't give someone eggs from her and my wheaten cockerel and claim that they would come out with the proper color. I just don't know enough about the specific genetics that would create an off colored bird from purebred properly colored stock. I actually kind of prefer her color, it's very pretty.

I don't show my birds, for me it's more of a hobby. I do plan on hatching some chicks and selling some hatching eggs from the properly colored birds. If I hatch them from Zelda I'll just keep them all for myself

 

[Bullitt]

Frosthazard, that is a pretty hen.

I think you could sell eggs from that hen as long as you tell people that her parents are purebreds but she doesn't meet the standards. I think most people don't care about the standards. I think people will see that hen and want to have chicks that look like her.

 

[kathyinmo]

Just thought I'd throw this out there, this is Zelda (she's only 20 weeks old in this pic). This is my white sport that came from a blue wheaten x blue wheaten cross.

Doesn't look like a white sport to me. But, what do I know........