Egg turning magic

[pillageTHENburn]

I have some pretty basic questions about emu egg turning during incubation. I've done a TON of reading and can't seem to find a reason for some of what I see explained as a "must".

To me it seems the consensus is to hand turn eggs at least 3 times per day (as long as it's an odd number, so they don't rest on the same side every night). Hand turning here means to rotate the egg 180˚ around its long axis. Do not flip eggs end for end. Always alternate turning direction.

I have several questions about this.
1) Why 180˚?

1a) If the idea is to keep the embryo from fusing with the side of the egg wouldn't 40-90˚ suffice?​

2) Assuming we are turning exactly 180˚ why does the direction matter/why alternate direction?

If I have an apple on the table and you look away then look back and while you were not looking I turned the apple over so it is now upside down (180˚) there is no way that you could tell by looking at it which direction it was turned.
I've seen video of male emu taking care of their eggs and the "turning" is much more of a random tumble than a precise science.
I do realize that if a male emu pushes an egg several inches to turn it he will likely push it back the other direction next time in order to keep it in the nest. This could result in a "rocking" type turn, however actual emu turning is not very precise.​

3) Why is hand turning preferred over an automatic turner?

I realize that most egg turners (that I've used or seen) do not turn the egg 180˚, the one I have is closer to 90˚. Is this a problem for emu eggs? I've seen people talk about using incubators for emu hatching (like this: https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/incubating-emu-eggs-in-a-1502-sportsman.1209006/) and those turners do not rotate 180˚.
3a) Is it okay to use an automatic turner that does not rotate 180˚ for emu eggs?
3b) Would it hurt an emu egg to have it in a 90˚ turner then manually rotate them an extra ~180˚ once a day? (If you tell me this is bad can you please explain why it is bad?)
​

I'm sorry for what may appear to be ignorant questions. We've had an emu in the family for many years but only recently I got two (hopefully) fertile eggs and we are going to attempt to hatch them. I actually started them yesterday however now I am questioning my (auto) turner.
Thank you!
-Logan

 

[EggSighted4Life]

2) Assuming we are turning exactly 180˚ why does the direction matter/why alternate direction?

Hi, welcome to BYC!

I've got no clue to most of your questions and never done emu's...

Couple of things I can tell you.. You go back and forth 180 instead of 360 because 360 would put the embryo resting in the same place it was previously. Which isn't just about the embryo not sticking, but also about being exposed to new nutrients within the white I believe. But also the embryo is attached by a cord that you don't wan't being constantly twisted in the same direction. By going back and forth it essentially keeps it correct. Sorry I don't have the technical terms down yet.

And though my resource is regarding chicken eggs, it might have enough incubation information to answer some of your "why" questions about incubation....
http://www.hubbardbreeders.com/media/incubation_guide_english__030374800_0945_07012015.pdf

I am a "why" questioner also. If I understand the reason WHY... then it makes sense and I can follow through.

Good luck hatching your emu's! What a long wait.

 

[juliefpc]

Hi pillage, welcome to BYC! I have been turning my last two eggs 180 degrees 3-4 times a day and I keep a post it note saying "right" or "left" to remind me to turn them the opposite time each time (I'm hatching ayam cemanis at the same time which are identical in incubator needs even though they are in a separate incubator). My weight loss has been dead on so far so I just kept doing the turning thing in the opposite direction each time. I have also switched up turning times just to make sure. ie, I'm a nurse so sometimes the eggs will go 10-12 hours without turning if we get a major influx at work, so on those days I try to switch up the times they are used to for turning. ie. if I turned at 9 am the day before, after a bad ER night, I turn at 11 am and then double back and turn again in the opposite direction 2 hours later rather than 4 hours later and then turn again two hours later. so far so good, hope this helps.

 

[EggSighted4Life]

I keep a post it note saying "right" or "left" to remind me to turn them the opposite time each time

I mark my eggs with an X on one side and an O on the other. I draw a line between them and only turn on the lined side... So if there is no line I know that isn't the correct direction to turn. Looks like this.. X <-------> O

actual emu turning is not very precise.

Very true... that's why we just do the best we can.

 

[RiverOtter]

I do realize that if a male emu pushes an egg several inches to turn it he will likely push it back the other direction next time in order to keep it in the nest. This could result in a "rocking" type turn, however actual emu turning is not very precise. ​

Actually, emu turning is wildly precise - for an emu! Daddy Emu has known exactly what to do since the invention of emu, and even before, so their hatching success rate is wonderful ... ours, not so much.

Since we can't fuss over eggs with the incredible amount of attention that the Mister gives, we do the best we can. So;
First, one of the main concerns with an automatic turner is they might puncture the egg. This is even more of a concern if it's not a turner very specifically built for the exact type of egg in question. As emu eggs are $$ and not easy to get, best not risk it.
The other concern is that they might fail. How aware are you going to be about whether or not the turner is actually turning your pricey, fussy egg? Again, better safe than sorry.

As far as specific turning - have you ever cracked an egg and see the way that white cord holds it to the shell? You don't want to create a lot of twist in that - remember that toy with the spinney disk in the middle of the string? Yeah, none of that, so we go back and forth. We say 180 so that we stay conscious about giving it a good turn. We're already doing a crap job compared to Poppa Emu, and turning is important to development for several reasons, so let's keep it in the front of our brains to give it a decent turn, but not go crazy spinning, and saying "turn it 180" gives people a nice, precise instruction, and people are more likely to follow those.

We don't go end over end because we don't want to mess with the air bubble, even a little. Our chick will use that to breath, and if it's not in the just-exactly-right-place, it will die.

Basically, these instructions are the result of lots of trial and error, to decrease your risk of error. If you'd like to do some trial, you will surely add to the pool of emu-hatching knowledge, but just know that you might be doing that instead of adding to your personal collection of emu.