Enhanced Protein Feed - Winter?

[Apis mellifera]

Yes I would love to see the insect protein go farther. From what I understand is the 2 biggest hurdles is figuring out how to prevent cross contamination of parasites and pathogens insect have (I guess Purina figured it out) and adding too much can effect the taste of the eggs.
I’m wondering if 16% would be ok seeing it’s a better quality of protein? However I’m not happy with the 2.5% fat and 7% fiber either. I’d like to know exact how much black soldier fly is in there or is it a marketing ploy were they add a tablespoon to a ton of feed just so they can put it on the label but really it’s effect is minuscule.

Some interesting articles on BSFL poultry feed:

https://entomologytoday.org/2018/06...enefit-farmers-environment-black-soldier-fly/

https://www.feednavigator.com/Artic...ly-meal-may-boost-growth-survival-of-broilers

On the Purina label BSFL is the fifth ingredient in a list of about 34.

 

[Apis mellifera]

My apologies for not including the label in the last post.

 

[Folly's place]

Guessing here, but because the ingredients are listed by weight, and the fly larva aren't dried out first, that looks like a very small amount of 'animal protein' in that feed. Listed AFTER the Ca carbonate!
Mary

 

[Cindy in PA]

Guessing here, but because the ingredients are listed by weight, and the fly larva aren't dried out first, that looks like a very small amount of 'animal protein' in that feed. Listed AFTER the Ca carbonate!
Mary

How do you know the larvae are not dried out first? I also remember years ago being told that animal feeds did not go by the most prevalent ingredient to least on the labels like human ingredient lists. Has that changed?

 

[Folly's place]

I agree that the fly larva aren't listed as either dried or not, so that would make some difference.
Feed ingredients are listed in order of weight on the labels.
That's why, on pet food labels, 'whole chicken', whatever that means, is listed way before 'meat meal', which is more like 10% water, rather than 70% to 80% for whole chicken.
Totally correct labeling, and deliberately deceptive, IMO.
Mary

 

[Mixed flock enthusiast]

Hi Ted, I followed your coop build thread with great interest and have now read this whole nutrition thread. A lot of people on BYC have very specific ideas and strong opinions about feed, maybe because people who are very concerned about food supply, “clean food”, etc are drawn to keeping their own chickens for meat and eggs. I myself am pretty busy between work, family, and pets (including our hens, pullets, roosters, guineas and ducks), so I am always trying to figure out the most efficient way to keep chickens. I also try to support local business, decrease plastic and fossil fuel use, decrease cost, etc so we mostly give one feed to all poultry. It’s our locally milled chicken starter/grower with 17% protein. We give oyster shell and our own egg shells on the side since we have a mixed flock.

Lots of people in BYCs, from chicken to guinea fowl keepers, feel it’s better to give higher protein feeds than the basic nutritional requirement of poultry that have been scientifically reported and are used to formulate commercial chicken feed. I haven’t been convinced of that need for higher protein and would need scientific evidence with a substantial increase in benefit to convince me that higher protein would be worthwhile for us. With that said, we did buy commercial (and plastic wrapped!) gamebird starter for our guinea keets, and I mixed it at 1/3-1/2 of total volume with the chick starter when our chickens were moulting this fall. IMHO, your six week old chickens and laying pullets would all be fine with your starter feed and calcium on the side. Once your chicks are older, they will also all be fine on your local layer feed.

 

[Ted Brown]

@Mixed flock enthusiast Your input is appreciated, sort of a jerk back up above the trees.

One difference - for me time is much less of a consideration. I am retired, live alone and started down the "chicken trail" to provide an additional activity/interest especially in the winter.

I have been carefully watching feed consumption by my flock as this thread has developed. Our weather has fluctuated from very cold (-12C night, ~-5C day) for the time of year and normal (both day and night around OC). During and after the very cold period the intake by the chicks of the local mash has increased while consumption of the 22% protein declined (their feed location is separate and not accessible to the older pullets so easy to monitor). I frequently see them eating from the main coop feeder that has the mash.

I also have feed and water in the run, this area is mainly used by the older pullets during the day while the chicks tend to remain inside. Originally I was providing mash in the run but changed that to the 22% feed 3 days ago; now trying to quantify amounts consumed but it seems that they eat the 22% when they are out and visa versa when they are in, no apparent preference.

I provide crushed oyster shell in a separate container hung on the wall, both groups take from it on a random basis. I will introduce grit starting next Monday into the inside dust bath and will also put a small container inside the brooder where only the chicks have access (the older pullets use the dust bath frequently, the chicks do not use it at all).

I provide "treats" a couple of times a week, usually scrambled eggs, banana, fresh veg cutoffs, ....). I am considering both fermentation and addition of meal worms.

I will formalize documentation of consumption and laying behaviours into a spreadsheet starting today although I have some past days info that will go in.

You will probably have noted that reducing to a single feed was my goal in Post #1 above. With this thread development I have moved away from that and will spend some months, through March when the new chicks start (fingers crossed) to lay, continuing to offer a variety and letting the flock decide for themselves. In late March I will start to let the flock free range a "few" hours per day when I am here and observe what results from that.

 

[Mixed flock enthusiast]

@Mixed flock enthusiast Your input is appreciated, sort of a jerk back up above the trees.

One difference - for me time is much less of a consideration. I am retired, live alone and started down the "chicken trail" to provide an additional activity/interest especially in the winter.

I have been carefully watching feed consumption by my flock as this thread has developed. Our weather has fluctuated from very cold (-12C night, ~-5C day) for the time of year and normal (both day and night around OC). During and after the very cold period the intake by the chicks of the local mash has increased while consumption of the 22% protein declined (their feed location is separate and not accessible to the older pullets so easy to monitor). I frequently see them eating from the main coop feeder that has the mash.

I also have feed and water in the run, this area is mainly used by the older pullets during the day while the chicks tend to remain inside. Originally I was providing mash in the run but changed that to the 22% feed 3 days ago; now trying to quantify amounts consumed but it seems that they eat the 22% when they are out and visa versa when they are in, no apparent preference.

I provide crushed oyster shell in a separate container hung on the wall, both groups take from it on a random basis. I will introduce grit starting next Monday into the inside dust bath and will also put a small container inside the brooder where only the chicks have access (the older pullets use the dust bath frequently, the chicks do not use it at all).

I provide "treats" a couple of times a week, usually scrambled eggs, banana, fresh veg cutoffs, ....). I am considering both fermentation and addition of meal worms.

I will formalize documentation of consumption and laying behaviours into a spreadsheet starting today although I have some pasts days info that will go in.

You will probably have noted that reducing to a single feed was my goal in Post #1. With this thread development I have moved away from that and will spend some months, through March when the new chicks start (fingers crossed) to lay, continuing to offer a variety and letting the flood decide for themselves. In late March I will start to let the flock free range a "few" hours per day when I am here and observe what results from that.

Yes, all one feed is simpler for me so something that I strive for. You are clearly a thoughtful and dedicated chicken keeper - your gals are lucky to have you! I hope that you will keep updating us all; I’ve been very curious as to how the full Woods coop performs during winter in your climate.

 

[ariri30]

I tried the all feed for all because I have mixed age chickens and roosters and list one because she was egg bound Another one got egg bound and I saved but never laid eggs again and another one kept laying eggs without shells. I put oysters shells everywhere in run and yard but they just ignored it. After I started putting out layer feed and chick starter and let everyone pick what they want to eat they started laying normal eggs again. It doesn’t work for me.

 

[Mixed flock enthusiast]

I tried the all feed for all because I have mixed age chickens and roosters and list one because she was egg bound Another one got egg bound and I saved but never laid eggs again and another one kept laying eggs without shells. I put oysters shells everywhere in run and yard but they just ignored it. After I started putting out layer feed and chick starter and let everyone pick what they want to eat they started laying normal eggs again. It doesn’t work for me.

Sorry that your lost your girls to egg binding! We did lose one to egg binding last year, and we have several that have laying problems. Jose is a leghorn mix that has hardly laid a normal egg in her 1.5 yrs of life. If she lays, it is often a soft shelled egg on the roost. I did try switching to laying feed for awhile to see if it would help her, but it didn’t seem to make a difference. I think our line of CCLs has a genetic egg problem, as one became egg bound soon after she began laying and one has always laid a rough, thin shelled egg. When we bred her for OEs, we did switch to layer for a few weeks first and that seemed to help her eggs a bit. Ours needed to figure out the oyster shell - mixing in baked egg shells helps as they love the eggs shells! We have almost 30 girls in the coop now, and they go through a ton of oyster shell, 2-4 cups a week. Our guineas also avidly eat oyster shell during their laying season, but I don’t want the cocks to eat layer. We may switch the chicken/duck girls all onto layer feed again when our juveniles are a little older...