Farmers, guns, and the "old days"

[galanie]

To all of the above:

I come from a family of teachers. My brother and his wife are retired now, and so glad to be. Hearing them describe how schools and the kids have changed the last 30 years is hair raising. My other brother still teaches and just does the best he can with the rules and kids he has to work with. I have to say though, the one brother that ended up teaching in a "special" school for the most disruptive and troubled kids enjoyed that more than teaching the "normal" ones.

Raising a child to be a responsible person is the most important job a person ever has. As for values, I know from experience that they never appreciate anything they didn't earn themselves. Give a kid a car, and they'll tear it up. Make that same kid work for the money to buy it, and wow does that car get taken care of well. I can say that from experience. My daughter was gifted with a car and it was always breaking down due to her lack of care. But after that she had to buy one herself. Amazing the difference. It's the same with everything else though. Clothes, furniture, electronics, anything that kid had to work for, they treated well and really appreciated it. Lazy kids just never were forced to work for anything. The work ethic is really important to teach. You can't do that if you're always giving your kids things you couldn't have as a child.

Mine also were taught how to handle guns. They knew not to touch a gun in the house. The guns were kept where the kids might have gotten them if they wanted to bad enough, but were unloaded unless in my line of sight. Which meant that if I had a pistol for protection, it was loaded during the night and when I was carrying it, but unloaded otherwise. Both of my kids were taught how to use it and respect it. I know that the potential was always there for them to cause a gun incident but it never happened. They would have been punished severely if they ever touched one without permission and they knew it. I never said "no" then allowed them to do things anyway. No meant No. Now, and forever more.

And I am lucky enough to have a son that is raising his kids pretty much the same way. Those boys are 4 and 6 and they have manners and listen to their parents. My daughter in law stays home with them. I'm so very proud when I see him with those boys. They are respectful too. So rare these days. Ok, I'll get down from my soapbox now.

 

[Ole rooster]

To all of the above:

I come from a family of teachers. My brother and his wife are retired now, and so glad to be. Hearing them describe how schools and the kids have changed the last 30 years is hair raising. My other brother still teaches and just does the best he can with the rules and kids he has to work with. I have to say though, the one brother that ended up teaching in a "special" school for the most disruptive and troubled kids enjoyed that more than teaching the "normal" ones.
Raising a child to be a responsible person is the most important job a person ever has. As for values, I know from experience that they never appreciate anything they didn't earn themselves. Give a kid a car, and they'll tear it up. Make that same kid work for the money to buy it, and wow does that car get taken care of well. I can say that from experience. My daughter was gifted with a car and it was always breaking down due to her lack of care. But after that she had to buy one herself. Amazing the difference. It's the same with everything else though. Clothes, furniture, electronics, anything that kid had to work for, they treated well and really appreciated it. Lazy kids just never were forced to work for anything. The work ethic is really important to teach. You can't do that if you're always giving your kids things you couldn't have as a child.
Mine also were taught how to handle guns. They knew not to touch a gun in the house. The guns were kept where the kids might have gotten them if they wanted to bad enough, but were unloaded unless in my line of sight. Which meant that if I had a pistol for protection, it was loaded during the night and when I was carrying it, but unloaded otherwise. Both of my kids were taught how to use it and respect it. I know that the potential was always there for them to cause a gun incident but it never happened. They would have been punished severely if they ever touched one without permission and they knew it. I never said "no" then allowed them to do things anyway. No meant No. Now, and forever more.
And I am lucky enough to have a son that is raising his kids pretty much the same way. Those boys are 4 and 6 and they have manners and listen to their parents. My daughter in law stays home with them. I'm so very proud when I see him with those boys. They are respectful too. So rare these days. Ok, I'll get down from my soapbox now.

No need to get down. You got lotsa respect here. I just don't think there is a more important job in the world than a loving mother. Period.

 

[oldrooster]

I will boil down what I have just read today. Parents are shifting the education of THEIR OWN CHILDREN to TV and underpaid overworked teachers who may or may not give a care (just like people in any other profession, (I am not trying to put down teachers) and the parents and the parents alone are at fault 90% of the time for our society today. Some kids are lost due to other influences or they can just be warped individuals also (common analogy a good kid from a bad home is just as likely as a bad kid from a good home). Just one question though, please explain how one is a Progressive and not a liberal? to where are you progressing to or from whence? my definition of progressive is a continual state of adding on or change, like the sapling is progressing to becoming a tree. the structure is progressing from a frame to an enclosed building.

 

[JenellYB]

Progressive has always been distinct from liberal, it has only been in very recent years, the last it has become the popular trend to use them as if the same or interchangable. Without getting into a serously long and complicated explanation of that, the best way i can put is that progressive is to liberal, as conservative is to liberatrian, and give only a brief overview.
Progress is controlled, moderated change, seeking a balance between holding what is good and functional in the present state, while seeking to improve where there is weakness or problems. Progessivism strives to respect and consider all the effects of both present and potential change on ALL people, what is equtable and fair for ALL people, and in the best interest of ALL society. Pure liberalism tends to be something of a counterpoint to and strikingly similar in many ways to libertarianism, though seemingly at oppostive ends of the spectrum. The liberal view is that everybody should be able to do whatever they want to, that they think best for themselves without regard to others or restraint by society...actually quite similar to liberatarianism. However, liberalism tends to be individualistic in that, while liberatariansim tends to be power/control group in nature, a relatively small group holding the power base. Liberalism want NO power base, the power diffused to each individual, Progressive strive for a broad power base, that distributes power throughout the population, but with restraints on individual actions that are harmful to others, take advantage of others.

If progressivism had a motto, it would be, every person's rights ends where the next person's begins.

I will boil down what I have just read today. Parents are shifting the education of THEIR OWN CHILDREN to TV and underpaid overworked teachers who may or may not give a care (just like people in any other profession, (I am not trying to put down teachers) and the parents and the parents alone are at fault 90% of the time for our society today. Some kids are lost due to other influences or they can just be warped individuals also (common analogy a good kid from a bad home is just as likely as a bad kid from a good home). Just one question though, please explain how one is a Progressive and not a liberal? to where are you progressing to or from whence? my definition of progressive is a continual state of adding on or change, like the sapling is progressing to becoming a tree. the structure is progressing from a frame to an enclosed building.

 

[whitejerabias]

I know this has gotten off topic, but I wanted to respond to the OP because DH and I were just talking about this the other day.

We just bought a house on Tuesday We have three acres in the woods and will be getting chickens and other livestock. Land to defend. Children to protect.

DH grew up sport hunting with his father. He 'owns' a few gun that his father kept from his childhood. I told DH to get his guns and we would both take an FID class. FIL is excited and wants to build us a deer blind. MIL has declared Cold War II.

I got to remembering when I was a little kid ... when they saw a predator, they were READY....

 

[JenellYB]

Lol! Good luck with MIL! The classes are a great idea, anyone not raised with and very familiar with guns need to do that, and those even raised with them, if its been a few years, are wise to as well. Actually, I'm going to revise that...its a good idea even for those raised with guns, becasue even if they assume they were raised right, they may not have been...my first husband came from a family with guns, and OMG he scared me to death with guns! Totally insane careless with them, but he didn't recognize it...got mad at me for being such a paranoid fraidy cat. He really believed I was afraid of guns, made fun of me for it...he didn't realize it was healthy respect for guns, it was HIM I was afraid on when he had a gun in his hands! He even once dropped an 'unloaded' pistol he was about to clean, as he sat down on a sofa one time....shot a hole through the floor. In another incident, he went running outside once when he heard a ruckus going on at a neighbor's, tripped on the door sill, dropped a pistol, reacted by bending down to try to grab it...it hit the porch deck butt first, went off, the bullet went through the palm of his hand and clipped a half inch off one of his earlobes. He was glaring at me to keep my mouth shut while at the emergency room he was telling them the gun had accidentally got knocked off a top shelf in a closet because someone else hadn't put it far enough back on the shelf, where it hit the floor and went off. Yep, classes are always a good idea!

I know this has gotten off topic, but I wanted to respond to the OP because DH and I were just talking about this the other day.

We just bought a house on Tuesday We have three acres in the woods and will be getting chickens and other livestock. Land to defend. Children to protect.

DH grew up sport hunting with his father. He 'owns' a few gun that his father kept from his childhood. I told DH to get his guns and we would both take an FID class. FIL is excited and wants to build us a deer blind. MIL has declared Cold War II.

 

[oldrooster]

If MIL is upset over classes she is a NUT and probably needs professional mental health intervention, I guess she doesn't like drivers ed, warning labels on products and speed limits on highways.

 

[Ole rooster]

If MIL is upset over classes she is a NUT and probably needs professional mental health intervention, I guess she doesn't like drivers ed, warning labels on products and speed limits on highways.iv

Good point. I know I don't like um. When I shoot I never fail to hit the intended target. Even in the Army it was the same. Never had a lesson on how to aim or pull a trigger. I've listened to many, many arguments on gun control. One restaurant in town even had some women at a table outside campaigning on gun control. One of the women, not of my race, said we have to band together stop our children from shooting each other. I told her she didn't have to concern herself with mine, hers would be the problem. A lot of this is culture, whether one cares to admit it or not. I told the same woman I live five miles off the interstate. I pass about 45 homes before I get to mine. According to averages there is probably 5 guns in each home. I told her I have driven that same state highway everyday for 21 years. I have yet to be shot at. Why? Can a progressive give me an logical answer? I too am a progressive, I guess. I want to change what's happen to this country for the last 50 years and replace it with what we had. "Change I can believe in" is not change I can believe in.

All of this still is in the hand of the parents. Lock, stock and barrel. If parents don't teach their children respect for each other and guns in particular, we have a problem, as we all see. TV's are the modern baby sitter. My wife as a teacher has many parents that think her job is to look after her kids when they don't want to. But loves to get mouthy when something happens the mother doesn't like. No child left behind has left so many behind it's pathetic.

 

[oldrooster]

A DJ on the local AM station told a few years ago he didn't want guns in his home and was personally opposed to them but supported everyone's right to them, and he decided to take a gun course because he said he felt like it was a good idea for everyone to learn about them in our culture. long story short a few years later he was able to disarm a drunk at a family gathering and render the gun useless until the cops showed up to haul of the troublemaker. before someone says that's why they should ban guns it could have easily been a car or knife but in this instance someone was trying to miss use a gun

 

[trooper]

I have my hand gun in a place where it is readily available for me to get.I am a responsible person and have been well taught in handling of fire arms.I hope that I don't have to ever have to shoot someone,but I will if I have to.I have been trained to protect me,family,friends,etc.I'm not felon,bad guy,etc.I don't abuse my rights;I respect them.I have taught my children the proper way to handle fire arms and to respect them.They handled them as babies,My responsibility to ensure safety and teach responsible handling.They handle them today better than well seasoned hunters.

Quote:

In Michigan foster care parents are allowed to own guns so long as they can show they're safely stored (locked safe, key is hidden, ammunition also locked up, etc.)

I love guns, always have since I was a little girl shooting on the farm with my dad and brothers. (And, yes, I'm one of those crazy liberals so I break the stereotype, too.) But, as an adult and parent I have questioned having guns in the house. What is the point if it's so locked up it'd take me forever to get to it? And, in the worse-case intruder scenario, what if by the time I got the gun ready the intruder was there to overpower me and my own gun became a weapon against me?

As a girl we knew where dad kept his guns and we knew how to load and shoot them but we never dreamed of touching them without his permission. These days, though, with my kids' friends in the house I'm just not so sure.

I think for me right now since my predator-killing needs are happening at most once per year it's enough to know my kindly neighbor has a gun and he's available to dispatch the critter that just ate one of my hens if/when I can live trap it.