Okay! Just not too much
Fat bellied 1 yr leghorn with xrays
- Thread starter TMChickens
- Start date
Hi
I'm sorry your girl is not well. I too would guess that she has been internally laying judging by those masses in the lower abdomen although the x-ray is not as clear as I would like.
@Wyorp Rock I believe your green arrow is pointing to the contents of the gizzard which would naturally appear like that on x-ray because it should contain grit etc.
@TMChickens ... you may not provide grit but chickens need it to grind up any food other than pellets or crumbles and they will find it whilst they are free ranging or scratch it up in their pen if they don't get to range. It is best to provide it, just to be sure they have an accessible source of it as it is extremely important to their digestive process.... it is essentially the means by which they chew up their food, singe they do not have teeth.
I appreciate what you are saying about her losing size from her abdomen and it may be that the medication is helping her body to remove fluids or perhaps she has stopped ovulating which will usually happen to adult birds over a year old at this time of year when they moult.... any sign of her dropping feathers? If her body has stopped producing egg yolks then she is no longer adding to the problem and her body has the opportunity to remove some of the surplus fluid produced from them. Unfortunately there is no process by which those egg yolks that are now inside her can be reabsorbed. Fluid leaches out of them and that certainly can but the removed by the body via the blood stream but the yolks themselves become a bit liked cooked egg yolk disks and there is no mechanism by which the body can get rid of them. They get squashed and flattened in between the intestines and other organs and can remain relatively inert for months until eventually the mass of them becomes so large that it blocks the gut and the bird is no longer able to poop properly and toxic waste builds up inside them and poisons them.
I would agree from your description of her activity level, that she is not unduly distressed by the problem at the moment although that upright posture may be putting a bit of a train on her. The surgery to remove those egg yolks and flush the abdominal cavity can run up to $1000 and beyond and there are huge risks, so I would not recommend it unless you are extremely wealthy and even then it may not be fair to put a chicken through it considering the risk. Hormonal implants should prevent the problem getting any worse but need to be replaced every 3-6 months at $100-150 a time, so again a pretty expensive undertaking. If the bird is starting to moult and has stopped ovulating ( her comb will go paler and less plump to indicate this) then I would not consider hormonal implants until she comes back "into lay" which may be anywhere from late next month to February, but you will be forewarned by her comb becoming bright red and plump again. To me that would be the time to get the hormone implant. If she is not moulting yet, then you may be able to trigger her to moult and stop ovulating by keeping her in the dark until lunchtime. The shorter exposure to daylight should cause her pineal gland to release hormones to stop ovulation.
@Peppercorngal How was your bird diagnosed as internal laying? There are a number of similar issues that can cause the same symptoms. Even if she was internally laying, I had one that improved dramatically over the winter when she moulted and stopped ovulating but the problem reoccurred in the spring when her ovaries started back up and she eventually got huge again and sadly succumbed to it. There is no way for those egg yolks to be reabsorbed, only the fluid that seeps out of them, which means you can see some improvement once they stop ovulating but the problem has not gone away. If your girl really is internally laying then it will catch up with her sooner or later, but it may be that she was misdiagnosed. If you have ever done a necropsy on a bird that has been laying internally, it helps you to understand that there is just no way for those egg yolks to get out once they have dropped into the abdominal cavity.
I'm sorry your girl is not well. I too would guess that she has been internally laying judging by those masses in the lower abdomen although the x-ray is not as clear as I would like.
@Wyorp Rock I believe your green arrow is pointing to the contents of the gizzard which would naturally appear like that on x-ray because it should contain grit etc.
@TMChickens ... you may not provide grit but chickens need it to grind up any food other than pellets or crumbles and they will find it whilst they are free ranging or scratch it up in their pen if they don't get to range. It is best to provide it, just to be sure they have an accessible source of it as it is extremely important to their digestive process.... it is essentially the means by which they chew up their food, singe they do not have teeth.
I appreciate what you are saying about her losing size from her abdomen and it may be that the medication is helping her body to remove fluids or perhaps she has stopped ovulating which will usually happen to adult birds over a year old at this time of year when they moult.... any sign of her dropping feathers? If her body has stopped producing egg yolks then she is no longer adding to the problem and her body has the opportunity to remove some of the surplus fluid produced from them. Unfortunately there is no process by which those egg yolks that are now inside her can be reabsorbed. Fluid leaches out of them and that certainly can but the removed by the body via the blood stream but the yolks themselves become a bit liked cooked egg yolk disks and there is no mechanism by which the body can get rid of them. They get squashed and flattened in between the intestines and other organs and can remain relatively inert for months until eventually the mass of them becomes so large that it blocks the gut and the bird is no longer able to poop properly and toxic waste builds up inside them and poisons them.
I would agree from your description of her activity level, that she is not unduly distressed by the problem at the moment although that upright posture may be putting a bit of a train on her. The surgery to remove those egg yolks and flush the abdominal cavity can run up to $1000 and beyond and there are huge risks, so I would not recommend it unless you are extremely wealthy and even then it may not be fair to put a chicken through it considering the risk. Hormonal implants should prevent the problem getting any worse but need to be replaced every 3-6 months at $100-150 a time, so again a pretty expensive undertaking. If the bird is starting to moult and has stopped ovulating ( her comb will go paler and less plump to indicate this) then I would not consider hormonal implants until she comes back "into lay" which may be anywhere from late next month to February, but you will be forewarned by her comb becoming bright red and plump again. To me that would be the time to get the hormone implant. If she is not moulting yet, then you may be able to trigger her to moult and stop ovulating by keeping her in the dark until lunchtime. The shorter exposure to daylight should cause her pineal gland to release hormones to stop ovulation.
@Peppercorngal How was your bird diagnosed as internal laying? There are a number of similar issues that can cause the same symptoms. Even if she was internally laying, I had one that improved dramatically over the winter when she moulted and stopped ovulating but the problem reoccurred in the spring when her ovaries started back up and she eventually got huge again and sadly succumbed to it. There is no way for those egg yolks to be reabsorbed, only the fluid that seeps out of them, which means you can see some improvement once they stop ovulating but the problem has not gone away. If your girl really is internally laying then it will catch up with her sooner or later, but it may be that she was misdiagnosed. If you have ever done a necropsy on a bird that has been laying internally, it helps you to understand that there is just no way for those egg yolks to get out once they have dropped into the abdominal cavity.
I just search for your chicken & I found that penguin like structure is when she's having pressure of rotten eggs inside her there's only two treatment mentioned
The removal of the oviduct will not prevent ovulation. The ovary needs to be removed for that and the blood supply is large and branches very close to the main artery, so there is a huge risk in removing the ovary itself and I have not heard of it being done. If the oviduct is removed, then hormone therapy is required otherwise the bird will continue to lay internally.
In my experience with internal laying the egg yolks do not "rot" or even appear to be infected and I believe that EYP does not automatically go hand in hand with internal laying. Necropsies I have done on birds with this showed no significant degradation of the yolks beyond compression and solidification and no bad smell which would indicate bacterial infection. I know that chickens' bodies produce solid pus which encapsulates infection to prevent it from spreading, but I am not convinced that the yolks that I have found inside hens that internally laid were covered in pus, they just seemed to be slightly cooked and uniform texture and colour. I'm not by any means saying Egg Yolk Peritonitis doesn't occur but just that internal laying can occur without them becoming infected and they can remain inert for a significant time period in the hens belly. If the bird has EYP then I would expect it to act sick.
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- Sep 28, 2017
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My husband is not in the frame of mind for implants or $1000 surgery. We love all our pets but also have to apply some limits to our emotional responses.
@rebrascora, wow! Thank you for sharing all of your knowledge. It is awesome to have have such valuable resources. @Saaniya, thank you so much for taking the time to research! We probably will not have surgery performed on her.
This morning her belly was down another 1/2 inch! Yeah! I am a nurse and keep applying human comforts to her. I realize she doesn’t have a contained abdominal cavity like we do, but I still feel like there hasn’t really been enough research conducted for what will work. We are trying everything we can and hoping for the best.
We are supplementing her diet with yogurt now, dribbling 10 cc of water 3 times a day to make sure she stay hydrated. My husband is at the store for children’s Motrin, Calcium and Vit D.
Also, going to do the epsom soak. If nothing else it is relaxing to her, who doesn’t loves a nice warm soak?
At the end of the day we are trying to do what’s we think is best for her to keep her comfortable and being financially cognizant. Will keep you updated!
@rebrascora, wow! Thank you for sharing all of your knowledge. It is awesome to have have such valuable resources. @Saaniya, thank you so much for taking the time to research! We probably will not have surgery performed on her.
This morning her belly was down another 1/2 inch! Yeah! I am a nurse and keep applying human comforts to her. I realize she doesn’t have a contained abdominal cavity like we do, but I still feel like there hasn’t really been enough research conducted for what will work. We are trying everything we can and hoping for the best.
We are supplementing her diet with yogurt now, dribbling 10 cc of water 3 times a day to make sure she stay hydrated. My husband is at the store for children’s Motrin, Calcium and Vit D.
Also, going to do the epsom soak. If nothing else it is relaxing to her, who doesn’t loves a nice warm soak?
At the end of the day we are trying to do what’s we think is best for her to keep her comfortable and being financially cognizant. Will keep you updated!
No need of thanks dear
Wow.if the belly shrunken daily I will say u r doing good keep updating and keep doing what u r doing I'm.having gut feeling she will recover
I would not give her any more diuretics, since that probably is not safe in chickens. She still might have some fluid in the abdomen if you try another area to withdraw fluid. I agree with all of the others that she probably is laying internally. They can feel well enough and tolerate that iF it is aseptic, unless or until bacterial infection happens, when it becomes egg yolk peritonitis. Bacteria can enter the oviduct from the vent and travel upward, causing infection and EYP.
This is very common in today’s good layers, and a common cause of death. Internal laying can be common to find on hens during butchering. It is always helpful to perform a necropsy on a hen that dies, to learn what might have been going on before death. Last winter during a very cold snap right after Christmas, I did necropsies on 4 older hens who died within 2 weeks. They suffered from ascites, oviduct cancer, salpingitis and EYP. Crop im paction or sour crop was present in one of those.
I would make your hen comfortable, let her back out with her flock to enjoy her time left. I have had hens with huge lower bellies that have lived normally for almost 2 years, if that helps.
This is very common in today’s good layers, and a common cause of death. Internal laying can be common to find on hens during butchering. It is always helpful to perform a necropsy on a hen that dies, to learn what might have been going on before death. Last winter during a very cold snap right after Christmas, I did necropsies on 4 older hens who died within 2 weeks. They suffered from ascites, oviduct cancer, salpingitis and EYP. Crop im paction or sour crop was present in one of those.
I would make your hen comfortable, let her back out with her flock to enjoy her time left. I have had hens with huge lower bellies that have lived normally for almost 2 years, if that helps.
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Here are some articles to help with understanding the different reproductive disorders:
http://www.scoopfromthecoop.com/laying-issues-internal-layers-and-peritonitis/
https://www.merckvetmanual.com/poul...T304ASlWG-l0F2-T5DFlqou3TcAQ0W98aAoSQEALw_wcB
https://www.merckvetmanual.com/poul...eproductive-system/egg-peritonitis-in-poultry
https://www.merckvetmanual.com/poul...rElb26NQ0VjiYpSUdzWiOljFI_-MhcA0aAkcOEALw_wcB
https://www.merckvetmanual.com/poultry/disorders-of-the-reproductive-system/salpingitis-in-poultry
http://www.scoopfromthecoop.com/laying-issues-internal-layers-and-peritonitis/
https://www.merckvetmanual.com/poul...T304ASlWG-l0F2-T5DFlqou3TcAQ0W98aAoSQEALw_wcB
https://www.merckvetmanual.com/poul...eproductive-system/egg-peritonitis-in-poultry
https://www.merckvetmanual.com/poul...rElb26NQ0VjiYpSUdzWiOljFI_-MhcA0aAkcOEALw_wcB
https://www.merckvetmanual.com/poultry/disorders-of-the-reproductive-system/salpingitis-in-poultry
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