Fecal Float Questions

[jolenesdad]

I’ve started learning to do my own fecal floats. I’ve got a couple of questions and I’m hoping someone may have advice or help or additional links and info... (ie @casportpony ) or even help IDing (ie @Sue Gremlin) @KsKingBee thoughts?

I have five or six symptomatic birds. Potential reduction in egg laying, potential lethargic behavior (but it is summer for both of those), and messy bottoms. I’ve reduced protein and bathed them and they’re still messy. My flock free ranges.

I’ve done five floats so far. One was clean. two had a small load of eggs (80-100/gram), and two had high counts (1800 & 1950/gram).

the eggs are either round worm or cecal worms, and I’m having a hard time differentiating. I ordered a lens with a scale to measure. the eggs are measuring 85x50 um. Which seems closer to Ascarid egg size? But to me they do look fairly parrallel and maybe closer to heteraksis. I also included one photo with a rounder egg, the only egg this shape on all the slides but also made me think it could be roundworms

in addition while doing The fecals I found worms. Not large like typical roundworm photos in manure that I’ve seen. Small, like the description of tapeworm segments. I believe I isolated a segment and got it on a slide. Here are my photos. Is this a tapeworm segment?

worm(??) is at 40x mag. It’s about 2/3 cm long and it measures 2 or 3 mm on the scope at various points. (I don’t know my math right away for what that measurement is at 40x magnification.)

Egg is 100x magnification.

 

[jolenesdad]

I may be being a bit obtuse, and you certainly seem to be really into your science on this. But why is it necessary to go to all these lengths when you can just give them a broad spectrum dewormer medicine, disinfect the coop and run and be done with it?

Well, I also have horses so I’m trying to learn. With any livestock you really should be doing a fecal float before and after deworming protocols. But that’s really expensive so I end up doing fecal floats once or twice a year on my horses. Resistance is a huge deal with worms in all livestock. You give them a wormer for something they don’t need, and there’s residues left in their system. Future bugs use that to build resistance to deworming medication.

if you know exactly which worms you have and don’t have, you can use more specific medications targeting to just that parasite. In the long run, if you stay on top of it, you can be deworming the “high shedding” animals more often as the problems develop and not even have to use wormers on those without the worms.

it may still fit in my scenario that a broad spectrum is worth it in this specific instance.

 

[aart]

But why is it necessary to go to all these lengths when you can just give them a broad spectrum dewormer medicine, disinfect the coop and run and be done with it?

Because knowing what might be there is better than indiscriminate medication,
especially when you don't want to 'eat' medication in your eggs.
Because knowing a count/load of what is there better than indiscriminate medication.
Because how do you know if medication worked or not,
or even if you need it in the first place,
as most worms are not visible to the naked eye.

 

[Trisseh]

just going to throw out there that the reason that there is sooooo much ivermectin resistance out there in pretty much every species is due to the indiscriminate, unnecessary, and poorly timed dozing over many years. Why treat when you don’t have to? Makes sense to me, but I also work at a clinic and do floats on the daily, and see what happens when there’s resistance in a flock or herd. Who wants to have to lose birds and then have to buy the expensive “big gun” dewormers if they don’t have to?

@jolenesdad great views on your scope, by the way. and kudos to you for learning to do it yourself! We generally don’t differentiate species unless they’re a specific reason to - those are an ascarid species so we would treat them as any other ascarid. The thick, brown shell gives them away right away. but beware, sometimes you’ll get eggs that have lost that outer shell!
The other item you have, I’m not 100% sure on. Usually tapeworm segments are seen with the naked eye, so I never really go looking for magnified views of them lol.

 

[aart]

I use Verm-X regularly as a preventative. It is all natural and there is no egg withdrawal. I only have a small space and don't rotate my flock around, so they are on the same ground, hence me needing to keep on top of worms.

Verm-x isn't really a wormer, just herbs and spices, might help prevent,
but without fecals before and after it's just wishing in one hand.

@Chicalina ....
Where in this world are you located?
Climate, and time of year, is almost always a factor.
Please add your general geographical location to your profile.
It's easy to do, and then it's always there!

 

[ChickenCanoe]

Cecal worm pictures!

From a Guinea necropsy. The cause of death was cancer, not worms.

Spoiler: Necropsy

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Rooster poop
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hen necropsy (2012) Cause of death was probably blackhead

Spoiler: Hen Necropsy

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Thanks for the pictures. I was going to cook some prime rib today but now I may just eat a baked sweet potato. .

 

[Folly's place]

In the USA there's a very short list of wormers approved for chickens; fenbendazole is it! Fortunately it kills most, but not all, of the intestinal worms likely to be found in the birds, including a few tapeworm species, depending on the dosage and days used.
Using a product as a 'preventative', with no evidence of exposure, or whatever, is nice in the 'wishful thinking' department.
Dogs and cats get a monthly drug, or drug combination, that kills intestinal parasites, new heartworm infections, and fleas and ticks, as they arrive. It's called heartworm preventative because the drug kills the larva injected by the mosquito before it can develop into heartworm in the heart. Likewise the products kill some intestinal worms early, monthly, so the dog or cat doesn't develop a bad worm load.
Mary

 

[Folly's place]

Many backyard chickens can manage a low worm burden without having health issues, and many can't. In warm climates where there's no freeze cycle, parasites are often a bigger problem, for everyone. Barefoot in the yard? Never!
Turkeys and peafowl, at least, will die due to the Heterachis and issues caused by that parasite, while chickens tend to do okay.
My flock has had few if any problems with intestinal parasites, which has been wonderful. Dry sandy soil does help!
My neighbor one mile up the road, on clay, with a near pond, has lost both peafowl and chickens to Heterachis. She needs to worm her poultry often to stay ahead of it all.
Mary

 

[KsKingBee]

Your pics are of cecal worms, treatment is the same for roundworms. One day dose followed in ten days with another one day dose. I prefer Valbazen (albendazole) or Safeguard (fenbendazole).

 

[Sunshine_Chick]

I’ve started learning to do my own fecal floats. I’ve got a couple of questions and I’m hoping someone may have advice or help or additional links and info... (ie @casportpony ) or even help IDing (ie @Sue Gremlin) @KsKingBee thoughts?

I have five or six symptomatic birds. Potential reduction in egg laying, potential lethargic behavior (but it is summer for both of those), and messy bottoms. I’ve reduced protein and bathed them and they’re still messy. My flock free ranges.

I’ve done five floats so far. One was clean. two had a small load of eggs (80-100/gram), and two had high counts (1800 & 1950/gram).

the eggs are either round worm or cecal worms, and I’m having a hard time differentiating. I ordered a lens with a scale to measure. the eggs are measuring 85x50 um. Which seems closer to Ascarid egg size? But to me they do look fairly parrallel and maybe closer to heteraksis. I also included one photo with a rounder egg, the only egg this shape on all the slides but also made me think it could be roundworms

in addition while doing The fecals I found worms. Not large like typical roundworm photos in manure that I’ve seen. Small, like the description of tapeworm segments. I believe I isolated a segment and got it on a slide. Here are my photos. Is this a tapeworm segment?

worm(??) is at 40x mag. It’s about 2/3 cm long and it measures 2 or 3 mm on the scope at various points. (I don’t know my math right away for what that measurement is at 40x magnification.)

Egg is 100x magnification.

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Looks like round worms to me. Years back I worked at a Vet office & did floats daily. Sure looks it to me, but then didn't do fowl so don't know how cecal worms would present.