Fecal Float Questions

[EggSighted4Life]

Of course!!!

You start some of the most interesting threads!

Sorry I am unable to identify your slide in question, but thanks for letting me share and learn along the way.

I've seen ALL the signs folks SWEAR is worms (except actual worms).. from the chickens.. yellow frothy droppings, muddy bumm, messy eggs.. From the dogs.. scoot paddling across the floor.

Fecal floats done at my vet come back clean EVERY time SO far.. 10 years on with NO "preventative measures (aside from good nutrition and waste removal)!

Floats at the vet cost me $25 a pop.. so I bought my own microscope as at the time having goats, dogs, chickens, and whatever chicken math brings, etc the cost quickly adds up even using the "group" float method for each species..

Only one acre total including house, barn, etc.. had 72+ birds, 2 large goats, 3 medium dogs.. sandy soil, 60+ inches of rain per year, temp range 38F low in winter to 70F high in summer. Humidity year round 60%+.

Anxiety and over thinking have slowed the onset of running my own floats.. but through planning and continued learning I WILL get there.. just like I eventually got to harvesting my own humanely raised chicken!

@Chicalina that's pretty funny that you see resistance to the wormer by the keepers!

I'm ALL for using something that works IF needed, natural or not. I'm of the mind that you can't prevent what you don't have and also that natural doesn't always mean good.. think arsenic is natural.. I won't ever worm an already ill bird without verifying need.. why throw poisons into their system that may not help them?

Just using a broad spectrum wormer without knowing need just continues to put $ in the pockets of big pharma.. Pass. That's one reason I am resistant, though most others mentioned already are my basic truths as well.

Good gut health can be achieved without vermx or other supplements simply through good nutrition (not diminished by excess treats) which supports the entire immune system.

Consider doing a float before and after your worm prevention treatment and share your findings. Doing it a couple times throughout the year during different seasons could help determine YOUR parasite load.

 

[ChickenCanoe]

I put all but one in a spoilers!

But all the spoilers showed up when I responded.

 

[KsKingBee]

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Thanks!!! That’s all super helpful.

it appears that tapeworm segments have more visible eggs in them on a scope than this worm does. After deeper diving following @KsKingBee’s comments I found multiple scope photos of cecal worms that look like this one. The measurements also fit.

Most commentary about cecal worms never mentions you can see them, and also says they’re not a worry or rarely cause issues, so I was sort of expecting them to be tapeworms.

this is all very fascinating.

Controlling cecal worms can help control Blackhead as cecal worms are transmitters of the histomonas protozoa. It is unfortunate that there are so many people willing to share the old and disproven wives tales about putting '3ml of fenbendazole or ivermec in a gallon of water' for deworming. So many birds lost and the worms that are building resistance to these otherwise good drugs is very sad.

 

[Isaac 0]

I’ve started learning to do my own fecal floats. I’ve got a couple of questions and I’m hoping someone may have advice or help or additional links and info... (ie @casportpony ) or even help IDing (ie @Sue Gremlin) @KsKingBee thoughts?

I have five or six symptomatic birds. Potential reduction in egg laying, potential lethargic behavior (but it is summer for both of those), and messy bottoms. I’ve reduced protein and bathed them and they’re still messy. My flock free ranges.

I’ve done five floats so far. One was clean. two had a small load of eggs (80-100/gram), and two had high counts (1800 & 1950/gram).

the eggs are either round worm or cecal worms, and I’m having a hard time differentiating. I ordered a lens with a scale to measure. the eggs are measuring 85x50 um. Which seems closer to Ascarid egg size? But to me they do look fairly parrallel and maybe closer to heteraksis. I also included one photo with a rounder egg, the only egg this shape on all the slides but also made me think it could be roundworms

in addition while doing The fecals I found worms. Not large like typical roundworm photos in manure that I’ve seen. Small, like the description of tapeworm segments. I believe I isolated a segment and got it on a slide. Here are my photos. Is this a tapeworm segment?

worm(??) is at 40x mag. It’s about 2/3 cm long and it measures 2 or 3 mm on the scope at various points. (I don’t know my math right away for what that measurement is at 40x magnification.)

Egg is 100x magnification.

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Funny you posted this.

I found several in a float I did last night as well.

 

[casportpony]

Funny you posted this.

I found several in a float I did last night as well.

Chicken or duck?

 

[KsKingBee]

Funny you posted this.

I found several in a float I did last night as well.

View attachment 2282057

Yours is roundworm egg.

 

[Isaac 0]

Chicken or duck?

Duck.

Yours is roundworm egg.

See, that's what I was thinking!

 

[KsKingBee]

Duck.



See, that's what I was thinking!

Cecal are more flat-sided and round are more rounded, like hot dogs and hamburgers.

 

[casportpony]

A favorite of mine:
This is what a vet wrote:
"Prophylactic Deworming
I have been saying this for years (because I have been seeing this for years!) and here it is: Many young and adult birds can be harboring ascarids (especially if they were parent-raised for any length of time) and you can run fecals all day, and guess what? The fecals will almost always be negative. A paper out of the Univ. of Georgia a few years back confirmed this. Many a time I have been a hero when I have dewormed a bird during a second or third opinion, when it passes a pile of ascarids and shocks the owner after being repeatedly told by other vets that "the fecal was negative." Well, deworm it anyway, with something safe. I routinely use pyrantel pamoate, since you can't hurt a bird with it, unless you aspirate it!"
Source:
http://www.exoticpetvet.net/avian/challenges.html

 

[Folly's place]

And pyrantel is no longer on that extremely short list of approved drugs for chickens. Negative fecals are the best that can be done, short of necropsy, so here we are. Most of the time, fecals will pick up something, although doing fecal egg counts are notoriously unrelated to actual worm burdens.
If only having a crystal ball actually worked!
Mary