Fellow Horse Hoof Trimmers Unite! Or shoers!

[seminolewind]

Ugh, I would start with trimming away as much of the bars as I could, as this horse is way over grown there and that is actually a major contributor to the issues. Secondly, yes, remove flares and a very hard roll on the toe, you probably won't be able to take much from the bottom, but the whole foot has slid forward and needs to be encouraged/pulled back. These feet are not going to be an overnight fix and being a barefooter, I would pull the shoes now, because any farrier is going to cry bad feet and needs a ton of money to putty/plaster that foot back together to get the roll on the toe that the horse really needs and shoes back on it. If that horse has the shoes pulled and is put on varying ground that will help build the crumbling wall and help encourage the foot to grow in the proper direction. JMHO.

This job is 3 days old.

Then the shoes were glued on or epoxied on. They fell off the next day. The horse could not be left barefoot. Too much pain. I agree it would have been better to go barefoot. Over grown is an understatement

Especially when that job is 3 days old.

 

[casportpony]

This job is 3 days old.

Then the shoes were glued on or epoxied on. They fell off the next day. The horse could not be left barefoot. Too much pain. I agree it would have been better to go barefoot. Over grown is an understatement

Especially when that job is 3 days old.

Good Lord! Wow, and he makes money doing this?

-Kathy

 

[onehorse_2000]

Unfortunately, a wedge is the absolute last thing I would do with this horse, if you can set the shoe back on the foot (probably almost an inch from where the toe starts in the picture) with a hard, hard roll, no wedge, that will help encourage the toe to come back. This and a serious trim on the bars, as I can tell from the way the foot is shaped, they are at least a 1/2" too long. A wedge will actually cause the foot to slide forward more, it does not promote correct heels like everyone thinks it does, once a horse has a wedge, they will never not need a wedge for support. If you actually start looking for healthy white line on this foot, you will probably start to find it about 3/4 - 1+ inches back from the end of the toe in this picture. Other then balancing the heels from side to side and getting them level with a healthy frog without bleeding, I wouldn't worry about them, they need the toe to come back first before they can go anywhere. This is a case where I would pull the shoes and turn out in a deep sand arena for a while, so that the horse can find comfortable until the feet start doing what they need to be. Unfortunately, rehab is usually painful and you are going to have a very difficult rehabbing this horse with shoes on. And, yes, I have dealt with a horse that could only pick up feet for seconds, it is a long and rough trim, took us about 6 months to get him to the point of being able to handle a complete trim on one foot, that was another farrier that thought they knew what they were doing screw up.

 

[casportpony]

Disclaimer noted for all posters. Posters are all assumed to be amateurs.

I really had no plan as I was shocked by these hooves-3 days after shod. I asked my professional friends what would help, and printed it out for my friend. I didn't feel experienced enough to give her advice, just ask some farriers for their advice.

There's a lot wrong here. About an inch of heels are rolled under and just shod on top of it, and it was claimed that the horse had no heels.
The walls won't hold nails
Too long toe
grossly underrun heel (he'll be waiting until h@ll freezes over if he thinks that heel is going to straighten up all by itself)
Without shoes the horse is 2 legged lame, will not pick up one foot for a few seconds, and both feet are way out in front of her, like a laminitic stance. I had scraped the sole to see if she had some that could be exfoliated (a week ago). The functional or live sole was right under the dead sole. It appeared that the soles had dropped, or there wasn't any wall support left. I'm the one who insisted on pain meds. The flares are so big that I wonder what's really left holding onto the coffin bone.
Laid over bars.

My first humble thought was to treat this horse as a founder, because she needed all that support. Trim what can be trimmed, back up the toe, take the heels back and she would need a wedge. And dry ground.

I am not connected to this horse in any way. I have never cared for the horse. This was a friend who had started to doubt the excuses she was given. I did have permission to post the pictures.

Casportpony, those are a lot of cool pictures of glue ons. I never knew they had so many.

Any one think of another way to care for them?

You tricked me, lol, didn't see this post until now.

Anyway, as lame as the horse is, I'd sure like to rule out laminitis and pedal ostitis with x-rays or whatever is used these days. If it were my horse, it would be getting an appropriate pain med and possibly gastroguard.

-Kathy

 

[casportpony]

We use the on one of our ponies when she's sore:

http://www.softrideboots.com/1/pagecontent/what-is-soft-ride.asp

 

[seminolewind]

Unfortunately, a wedge is the absolute last thing I would do with this horse, if you can set the shoe back on the foot (probably almost an inch from where the toe starts in the picture) with a hard, hard roll, no wedge, that will help encourage the toe to come back. This and a serious trim on the bars, as I can tell from the way the foot is shaped, they are at least a 1/2" too long. A wedge will actually cause the foot to slide forward more, it does not promote correct heels like everyone thinks it does, once a horse has a wedge, they will never not need a wedge for support. If you actually start looking for healthy white line on this foot, you will probably start to find it about 3/4 - 1+ inches back from the end of the toe in this picture. Other then balancing the heels from side to side and getting them level with a healthy frog without bleeding, I wouldn't worry about them, they need the toe to come back first before they can go anywhere. This is a case where I would pull the shoes and turn out in a deep sand arena for a while, so that the horse can find comfortable until the feet start doing what they need to be. Unfortunately, rehab is usually painful and you are going to have a very difficult rehabbing this horse with shoes on. And, yes, I have dealt with a horse that could only pick up feet for seconds, it is a long and rough trim, took us about 6 months to get him to the point of being able to handle a complete trim on one foot, that was another farrier that thought they knew what they were doing screw up.

I agree about the wedge. Those heels are almost an inch long and rolled under. I would salivate to do a trim on that horse, LOL. I do think she needs to be barefoot with pain killers as needed. Lady is concerned when she can ride her again.

Although I'd rather see the horse barefoot, I know they can do miracles with rebuilding a hoof wall, even nailing thru it.

Those Softrides that Kathy has up look like a good alternative to me too.

With so many options, I just can't believe that the farrier just kept smacking a shoe on those hooves. On pic #3, it looks like the flare goes half way up the hoof . I would think maybe WLD. He could have taken the flare off and build some hoof support. It's not supporting anything and looks like the hoof is crushing.

The horse was led in the next day from the sand paddock and was not lame. I said how would you know if the horse is lame on both feet?

I believe the farrier came the next day and casted a shoe on the same mess. The vet was never called. The BM had bute she sold to the lady. The lady went on a cruise for 2 weeks.

Now, if these people are all blowing her off for the last months, and farrier is too, you continue trusting these people? BM says to keep my opinions to myself -I don't know what I'm talking about (regarding to what the hooves need, and hadn't been done.) She's had many years of experience with horses. She said there hasn't been a problem till now. (Really?) The lady , I think, makes me and the others think we are right when the other isn't around, and plays clueless. I moved my horse.

Trainer's a lousy rider too. Took up Dressage a few years ago and now teaches it. She can't even do a sitting trot, or get the horse round and relaxed. Horse still goes with a stiff jaw. I swear.

 

[seminolewind]

We use the on one of our ponies when she's sore:

http://www.softrideboots.com/1/pagecontent/what-is-soft-ride.asp

Kathy, have you tried anything for riding?

 

[res]

X-rays are very common these days, and extremely available to be done on-site at an affordable cost. I can remember when you HAD to haul to the vet to get them done, or IF you could find someone to do them as a farm call, it cost you an arm and a leg.

I had a suspected club foot (which it is not...) x-rayed last fall. Farm call $80 + 2 films $40. This particular vet still uses good ole' films - digital shots might be more costly.

If this were my horse, I would x-ray the hooves, just to know exactly what is going on inside. Might not be anything, but it would be nice to know....

 

[onehorse_2000]

X-rays are very common these days, and extremely available to be done on-site at an affordable cost. I can remember when you HAD to haul to the vet to get them done, or IF you could find someone to do them as a farm call, it cost you an arm and a leg.

I had a suspected club foot (which it is not...) x-rayed last fall. Farm call $80 + 2 films $40. This particular vet still uses good ole' films - digital shots might be more costly.

If this were my horse, I would x-ray the hooves, just to know exactly what is going on inside. Might not be anything, but it would be nice to know....

I appreciate x-rays in some respects, but not so much in others. In this situation, I wouldn't be jumping to x-rays for 2 reasons. First off, the foot on this horse is so bad that I won't want to give this horse an ill-fated destiny because the x-rays came back negative and secondly, most farriers and vets still don't know what to do with a foot even with the x-rays. I actually had a vet tell me to take a gelding down 2 degrees in the heel on one foot and then put a 3 degree wedge on him. Huh?!?! Take him down to put him back up? Nah. This is the old guy that when we started couldn't handle more then a handful of seconds of trimming before his other foot hurt too bad. We did get x-rays of him, P3 on both fronts were absolutely horrible, but we did manage to get him to the point of being sound 90% of the time. Considering how bad P3 was, it was amazing, 50% of P3 had remodeled and/or dissolved, the wings of P3 that go up to P2 were dissolved, navicular, and sidebone. He was a sport, it was painful for him, but to see him be able to kick up his heels a couple of years later, was worth it.

 

[seminolewind]

Quote:
If it were my personal horse, he would get pain meds as needed. A nice trim as possible, and those softrides. I don't think I'd be riding at this time.
I've had shoes on my horse for 2 cycles, and her feet are chipping and splitting. I don't think it would be happening if the shoes were nailed on and clinched higher on the wall. Thank gosh the shoes are coming off Thursday.