FERMENTED FEEDS...anyone using them?

[EggSighted4Life]

So NOW of course I am wondering the difference in rate of FF used in months when chickens are pastured, vs. months when they aren't (i.e. winter here, for sure). I am certain some of you are able to pasture year round. And about that i am a bit jealous!

I may start to measure my feed. They also get fermented alfalfa right now due to not pasturing as well as some scratch at dusk and some suet lately, so it would be hard to measure (lol what a mess).

The birds also have dry feed available to make certain there is enough food. But they eat not much of that at all.

Well, I'm one of those over thinkers who has run so many numbers and possibilities it makes my head spin.

I don't do scratch. And haven't done any supplementing. The info I've seen say free range can save as much as 30%, but I don't think I get that kind of result.... though I did include it in my chicken math when deciding how many chicken I can afford to keep.

That plus supposed 30% savings from FF means I can have 60% more birds!!

Right?

Ah and then there's sprouting!

 

[mobius]

And fodder!!!

And meal worms (I have a mealworm bin), I almost forgot...they do have that and some BOSS I throw in to ferment with the alfalfa!

 

[lazy gardener]

Quote: Interestingly enough, the calculation I gave you was based on Layer. The next bag was multi flock, and yielded .195#/day/bird. I expect the increased feed consumption was based on cold snap and birds resuming laying. I keep OS out at all times, especially in the winter, no matter what I'm feeding. I consider this to be more important in the winter than it is when they have access to free range. White clover is 10% calcium. They also have increased Vit D production in the summer. Vitamin D is essential for Calcium metabolism. I have recently started sprouting grains for the birds. They get about 1/2 cup of wheat (dry) sprouted every 2 - 3 days now. I plan to continue tracking feed consumption to try to tease out information based ON MY FLOCK AND FEEDING PRACTICES to see whether multi-flock or layer is more economical. As an aside, I have also started giving them a ground up human multi vit and glucosamine at the rate of one tab every 3 days. Shell quality has improved considerably since doing so. I am not advocating such a practice. But, I am an experimenter, living my life with many "what if" questions escaping my brain on a daily basis. I consider that chicken feed is formulated by using the cheapest and least amount of ingredients possible to yield "an acceptable result". So, "what if" I provide better input to my birds????

 

[Molpet]

Interestingly enough, the calculation I gave you was based on Layer. The next bag was multi flock, and yielded .195#/day/bird. I expect the increased feed consumption was based on cold snap and birds resuming laying. I keep OS out at all times, especially in the winter, no matter what I'm feeding. I consider this to be more important in the winter than it is when they have access to free range. White clover is 10% calcium. They also have increased Vit D production in the summer. Vitamin D is essential for Calcium metabolism. I have recently started sprouting grains for the birds. They get about 1/2 cup of wheat (dry) sprouted every 2 - 3 days now. I plan to continue tracking feed consumption to try to tease out information based ON MY FLOCK AND FEEDING PRACTICES to see whether multi-flock or layer is more economical. As an aside, I have also started giving them a ground up human multi vit and glucosamine at the rate of one tab every 3 days. Shell quality has improved considerably since doing so. I am not advocating such a practice. But, I am an experimenter, living my life with many "what if" questions escaping my brain on a daily basis. I consider that chicken feed is formulated by using the cheapest and least amount of ingredients possible to yield "an acceptable result". So, "what if" I provide better input to my birds????

I wonder how the multi vit compares to Durvet Layer Boost
(4 gm = tsp) 4 gm scoop included - 1 scoop / gallon of water / day
Total lactic acid producing bacteria (min)..7.04 x 108 CFU/tsp (Enterococcus faecium, Lactobacillus acidophilus)
Sodium (min)............................. 1.12%
Potassium (min)......................... 0.40%
Vitamin A (min)........................... 84,500 IU/tsp
Vitamin D3 (min)......................... 40,700 IU/tsp
Vitamin E (min).......................... 35 IU/tsp
Vitamin C (min).......................... 129 mg/tsp
Phytase (A. oryzae)................... 1,760 μg phytate hydrolyzed/min/tsp
http://www.durvet.com/index.php?option=com_k2&view=item&id=365:layer-boost

http://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/performance-poultry-layer-boost-120-gm

ETA: I did use this one winter when I switched feed and had only 1 hen laying, in 2 days I had 3 of 6 laying... I quit using it when that bag of feed was gone

 

[Leigti]

All the calculations can start getting complicated when there are variables such as different ages of chickens, whether such as extreme cold and snow, types of food etc. When it is this cold and all the snow I feed them as much as they want. I feed them FF twice a day and a couple handfuls of scratch at bedtime.
I make the FF extremely dry, when it is wet it freezes to the trough or the ground. But making it as dry as I do it doesn't seem to do that. In the winter I also add alfalfa to the FF. And I give out more scratch, basically to keep them warm.

 

[EggSighted4Life]

All the calculations can start getting complicated when there are variables such as different ages of chickens, whether such as extreme cold and snow, types of food etc. When it is this cold and all the snow I feed them as much as they want. I feed them FF twice a day and a couple handfuls of scratch at bedtime.
I make the FF extremely dry, when it is wet it freezes to the trough or the ground. But making it as dry as I do it doesn't seem to do that. In the winter I also add alfalfa to the FF. And I give out more scratch, basically to keep them warm.

Can you please tell me how scratch "keeps them warm"? Isn't it mostly corn? And doesn't our core body temperature stay the same regardless of we eat?

Now, I can see the body using more calories to maintain that heat. But does scratch have more calories? Because it definitely has less vital nutrients..... Maybe consider.... using dry feed pellets or crumbles as a scratch. I mean unless that's what you have available all the time. No freezing for me, so FF is always available.

Thanks for sharing the mix dryer tip! .... Interesting that you say it freezes faster with more water AND frost bite happens faster with more water in the air.

 

[Leigti]

Can you please tell me how scratch "keeps them warm"?  Isn't it mostly corn? And doesn't our core body temperature stay the same regardless of we eat? 

Now, I can see the body using more calories to maintain that heat. But does scratch have more calories? Because it definitely has less vital nutrients..... Maybe consider.... using dry feed pellets or crumbles as a scratch. I mean unless that's what you have available all the time. No freezing for me, so FF is always available.

Thanks for sharing the mix dryer tip!   .... Interesting that you say it freezes faster with more water AND frost bite happens faster with more water in the air. 

The scratch does include corn, but also other whole grains and black oil sunflower seeds. There's also dried mealworms and soldier fly larvae in it. This gives more protein and more calories because they burn more calories in the winter. And digesting the greens helps keep them warm, at least that's what I've always heard and I figure it can't hurt. It helps ensure that their crops are full at night, and when the temperature gets down to below zero they need that. I do not provide any heat or light.

 

[aart]

Quote: Depends on your scratch mix.
The one I get from local mill has "8-10%" protein according to miller,
and that is just an estimated value as tho they use a recipe,
components vary and are not evaluated for nutritive content anyway.

Regardless, any digestion will 'create heat' and all my birds seem to fill their crops before roosting, I'm guessing that's instinctual.

 

[lazy gardener]

Quote: Depends on your scratch mix.
The one I get from local mill has "8-10%" protein according to miller,
and that is just an estimated value as tho they use a recipe,
components vary and are not evaluated for nutritive content anyway.

Regardless, any digestion will 'create heat' and all my birds seem to fill their crops before roosting, I'm guessing that's instinctual.
And around and around and around the discussion goes. A calorie is a calorie is a calorie: Definition of a calorie: The amount of heat needed to raise the temperature of 1,000 grams of water by one degree Celsius. This unit is used as a measure of the energy released by food as it is digested by the human body. I would suggest that if your base food has extra protein in it, feeding some scratch is fine. But, if it does not have extra protein, avoid the scratch or corn b/c that will bring their total protein down even further. As for corn "heating the body" or any other such idea, I did a google search and found no supporting evidence when this topic came up several weeks ago. In my personal experience, when I have a big meal on board, my extremities tend to get cold. Any one else have that experience? Yes, birds need more calories in the winter to generate that heat. Yes, it makes sense to feed them before going to perch... maybe. Do their extremities get cold after a big meal??? My suggestion: Take care of your bird's over all nutrition. No one food is going to be a magic bullet to keep them warm. A calorie is a calorie. But, if they take in more calories than they need, it will be stored as fat, which can result in future laying problems. And, no, I do not limit my bird's feed in the winter.

 

[aart]

.... My suggestion: Take care of your bird's over all nutrition. ...

Yep, indeed I do.