FERMENTED FEEDS...anyone using them?

[ChickenCanoe]

I made a couple extra buckets of FF recently since we are beginning to thaw out and I have another 30+ birds that will be eating it.
I had the grey scoby stuff and I keeep a lid on the buckets. This morning, one had a healthy layer of mold on it. Maybe I should have kept it covered with water.


Does anyone have ideas for an automated system, or at least a faster way of distributing FF to 8 flocks of chickens? This movement away from bulk feed may get old.

 

[perchie.girl]

I made a couple extra buckets of FF recently since we are beginning to thaw out and I have another 30+ birds that will be eating it.
I had the grey scoby stuff and I keeep a lid on the buckets. This morning, one had a healthy layer of mold on it. Maybe I should have kept it covered with water.


Does anyone have ideas for an automated system, or at least a faster way of distributing FF to 8 flocks of chickens? This movement away from bulk feed may get old.

I am currently working on something Because IF I get my poultry house built I will have the potential to feed about six separate pens each with about thirty birds in it. I will figure it out and it will be low tech meaning something that can be built without hiring an engineer.... LOL. Hem..... Love engineers but sometimes they get too complicted with stuff.... ""I resemble that""

deb

 

[Beekissed]

Me to. Evey morning I have a white coating on the top of the ff mash. I just stir it all in and never realized it was mold. And to no ill effects. Is it really mold? Why doesn't the acidity prevent its formation I wonder. So what is all the bruhaha about mold hurting the chickens then? It sure doesn't hurt my hens or the chicks for that matter. BTW, I took Gimpy to the vet yesterday and he says not to come in next week and we'll remove the splint the following week. Her feeling came back in the toes of that foot so she's going to walk again. My $3 chick is sure worth a lot now! All my chick selling profits went to the vet! And so it goes... : )

It's not mold...it's the fine, fine growth of lactobacillus organisms that are feeding on the top of the feed mix. They are just more evident to us because they are on top instead of throughout~which they are also~but we cannot see them as well. Now, if that layer grows something a little more...fuzzy...then that's a bit of mold and depending on how well it's colonized and established whether the mycotoxins can affect the chickens. No one is allowing that to colonize and get established because we are stirring it into the interior of the feed mix where the lack of O2 and the high colony of lacto should take care of it. At least, it seems to. There are some molds that are dangerous and some that are not...so far, I've not had any effects from them.

Quote:
And this is why I always advise culling as an option for injured or sickly birds.

Unless chickens are just pets and an expensive hobby and then folks are pretty much expected to spend a lot to keep them going.

For food production, though, it makes no sense to spend more than the chicken is worth, in her lifetime of laying or for her meat, to keep her around to do those when you can replace her cheaply with another that will do the job as well or better.

It's all in what you want out of your flock...an expensive way to have eggs and fun...or a profitable way to have healthy eggs and meat. Usually those two types of flock owners are separated by a wide gulf of no-man's land and never the twain shall meet.

 

[ChickenCanoe]

As a retired automation engineer and industrial electrician, I resemble that as well Deb.

I haven't wrapped my head around it yet either but carrying the bucket around this morning made me think.

In the past I only had to fill the bulk feeders weekly. I don't have as many birds as you are planning but still have at least 8 units. The only coop with more than 15 birds is the brooder house.

 

[ChickenCanoe]

It's not mold...it's the fine, fine growth of lactobacillus organisms that are feeding on the top of the feed mix. They are just more evident to us because they are on top instead of throughout~which they are also~but we cannot see them as well. Now, if that layer grows something a little more...fuzzy...then that's a bit of mold and depending on how well it's colonized and established whether the mycotoxins can affect the chickens. No one is allowing that to colonize and get established because we are stirring it into the interior of the feed mix where the lack of O2 and the high colony of lacto should take care of it. At least, it seems to. There are some molds that are dangerous and some that are not...so far, I've not had any effects from them.


And this is why I always advise culling as an option for injured or sickly birds.

Unless chickens are just pets and an expensive hobby and then folks are pretty much expected to spend a lot to keep them going.

For food production, though, it makes no sense to spend more than the chicken is worth, in her lifetime of laying or for her meat, to keep her around to do those when you can replace her cheaply with another that will do the job as well or better.

It's all in what you want out of your flock...an expensive way to have eggs and fun...or a profitable way to have healthy eggs and meat. Usually those two types of flock owners are separated by a wide gulf of no-man's land and never the twain shall meet.

You're giving me faith with this response to the mold thing. Mine was quite fuzzy this morning.

As to the vet thing. We never even used a vet for cats, dogs or horses when I was growing up, much less poultry, hogs or cattle.
They made it or they didn't. That said, after finding a rare breed I searched long and hard for, I took an egg bound pullet to a vet when she had a relapse after I successfully got her to release one.
The vet was virtually worthless and a waste of time and money.
Unlike many areas, we actually have at least 4 good avian vets and 2 with poultry experience. That's quite rare.

I understand there are a lot of pet chicken people here, and they do make good urban backyard pets.
I have had a lot of chickens I've been very fond of. On the other hand, I've always considered them livestock and if they didn't make me breakfast AND dinner, as well as provide fertilizer, I wouldn't own one.

 

[perchie.girl]

As a retired automation engineer and industrial electrician, I resemble that as well Deb.

I haven't wrapped my head around it yet either but carrying the bucket around this morning made me think.

In the past I only had to fill the bulk feeders weekly. I don't have as many birds as you are planning but still have at least 8 units. The only coop with more than 15 birds is the brooder house.

LOL.... I dont have the degree but I my title when I retired was Manufacturing Engineer.... Pick N Place production lines. To Lead acid battery manufacturing lines. I am really just a Mechanical designer...

In production poultry houses they transport feed throughout thehouse using a screw feed.... Which essentially is a long spring running through the feed tubes. I dont think this is practical for FF but I have been thinking of options where I can go down the line of pens Pulling out the feed trays ..... PVC pipe sleeved inside a PVC pipe.... Oh I have to draw it.... but Pulling the tubes out far enough to slop in feed then pushing them back in and moving to the next pen. My pens are six feet wide..... And the aisle accesses each and every one.... Under shade.

I have to go but I will be back later with some sketches.

deb

 

[chickengirl1193]

This may have been brought up before, but could ducks be fed the same ff as chickens?
Im thinking about getting a few.ducks and it would be nice if they could eat the same starter grower ff I'm giving to my chicks

 

[Beekissed]

This may have been brought up before, but could ducks be fed the same ff as chickens?
Im thinking about getting a few.ducks and it would be nice if they could eat the same starter grower ff I'm giving to my chicks

Yep...there are quite a few feeding FF to their waterfowl and other large fowl.

 

[pdirt]

Me to. Evey morning I have a white coating on the top of the ff mash. I just stir it all in and never realized it was mold. And to no ill effects. Is it really mold? Why doesn't the acidity prevent its formation I wonder. So what is all the bruhaha about mold hurting the chickens then? It sure doesn't hurt my hens or the chicks for that matter. BTW, I took Gimpy to the vet yesterday and he says not to come in next week and we'll remove the splint the following week. Her feeling came back in the toes of that foot so she's going to walk again. My $3 chick is sure worth a lot now! All my chick selling profits went to the vet! And so it goes... : )

Most likely the white stuff is not mold but yeast. I've become a fermenting fiend the last 4 years or so (kraut, pickles, kimchi, tempeh, natto, Effective Microorganisms, dairy kefir, sourdough, water kefir, "ginger bug" soda, ketchup, now chicken feed, etc.). Most ferments involve a symbiotic relationship between yeasts and lactic acid bacteria so the yeasts are beneficial. In my experience, mold can grow, but it usually takes several weeks or more for that to happen. It will depend in large part upon your the climate you live in, more humid environs will be more hospitable to molds. All the molds I'm familiar with smell like mold (I don't know how to explain the aroma in words!) and yeasts smell like yeasts. There can be variations of aromas, but all yeasts I'm familiar with will have a "base note" of yeast smell and the same with molds. There are so many kinds of molds and yeasts I'm sure there are some that don't fit this description.

The white stuff you describe is again, likely yeast and it can show up as a dusting or sometimes even fuzzy. But fuzzy white mold and fuzzy white yeast don't look the same. In any case, stirring it in will kill the mold (if that is what it is) and probably the yeasts and lactic acid bacteria will "eat" the mold. Many folks will do this with their vegetable ferments and others will simply remove the mold, it's a personal preference.

Most of these photos are of fuzzy white yeast, any of them look familiar?

Most of these ones are of fuzzy white mold. Notice that usually there are also brown or green or black colors as well and they're generally much fuzzier.

Side note, we used to live in Seattle, which is fairly humid. Once we were helping a friend renovate a house. We found some black-colored mold in the bathroom and immediately thought it was the famous toxic "black mold". We hired one of the top plumbing companies in Seattle to come in and look at it (we also need some drain repairs) and he said in his 30 years of experience in Seattle he has only seen the toxic black mold a couple times and this was not it. He said that as obvious as the extent of the mold was, if it was black mold, we all would have been very sick by now. Not that breathing mold spores of any kind is generally a good idea, but this wasn't the really bad stuff. He said the toxic stuff was not common in Seattle because it wasn't warm enough for it to really thrive, like it is in a humid/hot climate like the Southern US.

 

[Beekissed]

Thank you for explaining and showing pics. Wish I could sticky this post and links/pics for these FF threads as this seems to be one of the most FAQs. And, yep....my "mold" is yeast, according to those pics!