FERMENTED FEEDS...anyone using them?

[mobius]

Pics rarely do justice as we all know... The smaller ones are what I hatched Wed/Thurs and there are 5 hatchery chicks with them. Mine are mostly Swedish Flower and a couple of EE.

Hard to believe that all 16 chicks are actually in this pic. The big one with feathers and stripe is Welsumer. The big whitish one is a Rock and there are also Black Australorp.

More AWWWs...how many Swedish Flowers? Chicken envy here!...wonder what their coloring will be....

 

[EggSighted4Life]

Pics rarely do justice as we all know... The smaller ones are what I hatched Wed/Thurs and there are 5 hatchery chicks with them. Mine are mostly Swedish Flower and a couple of EE.

Hard to believe that all 16 chicks are actually in this pic. The big one with feathers and stripe is Welsumer. The big whitish one is a Rock and there are also Black Australorp.

Just remember I gave 4 to a broody so actually there are only 12 here.

 

[EggSighted4Life]

More AWWWs...how many Swedish Flowers? Chicken envy here!...wonder what their coloring will be....

6 Swedish babies. Will be excited to see how they come out as well! Also to get better pics.

 

[Molpet]

There is actually a treatment for cocci that's a dairy flush. You know, because they can't digest it..... regardless, small amounts are tolerable, but have zero impact on egg production.

It's like red pepper flakes increasing production- chickens don't even HAVE capsaicin receptors {which is why the heat doesn't affect them} and they only have 30-35 taste buds {compared to our 10,000}, so I'd like to see studies that prove the science behind that....

CONCLUSIONS

The results of the present experiments indicate that dietary inclusion of both red pepper powder and pigment were successful in increasing the egg yolk score of laying hens which would make these eggs more attractive to potential consumers. Neither product produced any negative effects on laying hen productivity and both products had a tendency to increase the weight of the eggs from treated hens.
The present study suggests that superfine grinding is superior to normal grinding for red pepper powder production as scanning electron microscopy indicated complete breakup of the cell wall structure of the red pepper with superfine grinding, while with normal grinding, many intact cells were still observed. Use of Na2CO3 before or after grinding did not have any beneficial effects on egg yolk color over that obtained with superfine grinding alone. Therefore, there would appear to be little justification for including it in the process to produce red pepper powder. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4093037/


In the present study the growth and reproductive organ differences in chickens fed a diet containing 1% red hot pepper (10 g/kg diet) from the first day of age were investigated. In birds fed with the experimental diet it was observed that the abdominal fat content decreased. During the experiment the increase in weight gain in the treated group in the first 4 months was reversed in favour of the control group in month 5. Follicular development in the treated group was faster and laying started 11 days before the control group, and the epithelial and muscular development of the oviduct was always greater than that of the control group.
The results indicated that red hot pepper consumed in lower concentrations during the development period in the chickens caused faster development of the reproductive system organs. Laying started 11 days earlier in chicks fed with the red hot pepper added diet, an important economic aspect for egg producers, but which may have implications for other animals. A decrease in abdominal fat content and disorders of lipid metabolism are still under investigation. Copyright

2005 John Wiley & Sons, Ltd.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ptr.1690/abstract


and for just hatched brolier: (3) CONT + 250 mg/kg of red pepper essential oil (RPO250). Irrespective of dietary treatment, especially delayed access to diet and water for 48 h posthatch significantly decreased daily BW gain from 0 to 21 d and daily feed intake from 4 to 21 d and increased the relative weight of the yolk sac at 3 d of broilers. The relative weight of the liver or gizzard of chickens at 21 d was significantly decreased by delayed access to diet and water for 24 h posthatch. The diet containing RPO250 significantly increased the relative weight of the pancreas at 21 d. Delayed access to diet and water for 24 or 48 h posthatch significantly reduced serum glucose levels at 21 d. The serum aspartate aminotransferase level in broilers given immediate access to feed and water was significantly decreased by the diet containing RPO250. Generally, the coliform bacteria and total yeast contents of the small intestine of chickens were significantly increased by extending the time to access to feed and water for broilers. Total aerobic bacteria contents of the small intestine of broilers with immediate, or 24- or 48-h posthatching delayed access to diet and water was significantly decreased by CONT, OO250, and RPO250 diets.
https://academic.oup.com/japr/article/22/4/738/762244/Effects-of-oregano-or-red-pepper-essential-oil

 

[lazy gardener]

I'm feeding my big girls FF but will give it to my new chicks in April. Is it better for it to be dryer or wetter for the littles(day old & up) Just curious if it matters much, or at all, on the consistency of it.
When I got my first flock last year I wasn't doing FF (I've learned so much from BYC)

I use the same consistency for the whole flock.

Quote: Could just be a timing matter (days getting longer), or the birds are benefitting from increased protein. Farmers have for years given excess milk to poultry, often in the form of buttermilk, or clabbered milk. I believe the fermentation process would make the milk easier to digest. When I have some milk in the fridge that is "on the edge" re: freshness, i set it out to clabber up, and then give it to the girls. Don't make a regular practice of it. But, regularly getting 14 eggs/day out of 9 birds?

Decreased credibility right there.

Quote: Again, the whole capsaicin issue, could just be a timing thing. Give the birds red pepper as the days are getting longer... egg production increases. Increased day length vs. red pepper??? Red pepper has to be loaded with vitamins. I bet it has some antihelminthic properties as well. But, IMO... it must be a pretty expensive vitamin! Depending of course on how much is used.

 

[EggSighted4Life]

I'm feeding my big girls FF but will give it to my new chicks in April. Is it better for it to be dryer or wetter for the littles(day old & up) Just curious if it matters much, or at all, on the consistency of it.
When I got my first flock last year I wasn't doing FF (I've learned so much from BYC)

When I started doing FF last year, it was a learning process. My FF was bit too thin and all of my chicks ended up with clumps of it dried to their chins and sometimes cheeks. Well they turn to cement.... and the other chicks like to help clean it up. Now my first set of chicks still have beards missing and such, because they won't likely grow back until molt. Boy are they ugly.

Anyways, when I inquired, was told to mix thicker. And haven't had that problem since.

My new chicks always seem a bit confused about what that weird stuff is. If there are other chicks that have figured it out and let them know, it is easier. I do always put some extra crumbles around the brooder and some marbles in the water and feed, just to pique their interest in pecking. Also, my adult birds do not like it if it's too thin.

I use the same feeders as LG, for the young ones. Did use dog bowls for a while... but some of my chickens insist on standing in the middle and scratching it out, making a big wasteful mess. So I went to trough style for the bigger crew. I use a plastic rain gutter that was laying around the house. I'm amazed that NONE of them care to stand in the trough! In my stag pen, I just use one of those ice catchers, the rectangular one that comes with lot's of fridges. It's like a short trough.

 

[OKVet]

I thought the "capsaicin receptors" were just the receptors that sense heat? The capsaicin 'fools' these receptors into reacting, which is why we sense it aIl

I have read that putting red pepper in their feed increases laying as well. I have also been told that if you do you can "burn" them out. No sure what to believe.

 

[Tikkijane]

CONCLUSIONS

The results of the present experiments indicate that dietary inclusion of both red pepper powder and pigment were successful in increasing the egg yolk score of laying hens which would make these eggs more attractive to potential consumers. Neither product produced any negative effects on laying hen productivity and both products had a tendency to increase the weight of the eggs from treated hens.
The present study suggests that superfine grinding is superior to normal grinding for red pepper powder production as scanning electron microscopy indicated complete breakup of the cell wall structure of the red pepper with superfine grinding, while with normal grinding, many intact cells were still observed. Use of Na2 CO3 before or after grinding did not have any beneficial effects on egg yolk color over that obtained with superfine grinding alone. Therefore, there would appear to be little justification for including it in the process to produce red pepper powder. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4093037/


In the present study the growth and reproductive organ differences in chickens fed a diet containing 1% red hot pepper (10 g/kg diet) from the first day of age were investigated. In birds fed with the experimental diet it was observed that the abdominal fat content decreased. During the experiment the increase in weight gain in the treated group in the first 4 months was reversed in favour of the control group in month 5. Follicular development in the treated group was faster and laying started 11 days before the control group, and the epithelial and muscular development of the oviduct was always greater than that of the control group.
The results indicated that red hot pepper consumed in lower concentrations during the development period in the chickens caused faster development of the reproductive system organs. Laying started 11 days earlier in chicks fed with the red hot pepper added diet, an important economic aspect for egg producers, but which may have implications for other animals. A decrease in abdominal fat content and disorders of lipid metabolism are still under investigation. Copyright

2005 John Wiley & Sons, Ltd.
[COLOR=333333]http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ptr.1690/abstract[/COLOR]


and for just hatched brolier:[COLOR=2A2A2A] (3) CONT + 250 mg/kg of red pepper essential oil (RPO250). Irrespective of dietary treatment, especially delayed access to diet and water for 48 h posthatch significantly decreased daily BW gain from 0 to 21 d and daily feed intake from 4 to 21 d and increased the relative weight of the yolk sac at 3 d of broilers. The relative weight of the liver or gizzard of chickens at 21 d was significantly decreased by delayed access to diet and water for 24 h posthatch. The diet containing RPO250 significantly increased the relative weight of the pancreas at 21 d. Delayed access to diet and water for 24 or 48 h posthatch significantly reduced serum glucose levels at 21 d. The serum aspartate aminotransferase level in broilers given immediate access to feed and water was significantly decreased by the diet containing RPO250. Generally, the coliform bacteria and total yeast contents of the small intestine of chickens were significantly increased by extending the time to access to feed and water for broilers. Total aerobic bacteria contents of the small intestine of broilers with immediate, or 24- or 48-h posthatching delayed access to diet and water was significantly decreased by CONT, OO250, and RPO250 diets.
https://academic.oup.com/japr/article/22/4/738/762244/Effects-of-oregano-or-red-pepper-essential-oil[/COLOR]

Thanks! So nothing that shows increased egg production- just earlier development of the oviduct {and effects on yolks.} unless I missed it. I certainly don't think there's any harm; although I'm not quite sure it's as magical as touted.

 

[Tikkijane]

I thought the "[COLOR=333333]capsaicin[/COLOR] receptors" were just the receptors that sense heat? The [COLOR=333333]capsaicin[/COLOR] 'fools' these receptors into reacting, which is why we sense it as heat.

Right! Which is why eating stuff that's hot to us doesn't bother them. Some have said it's the heat from the pepper that increases body temp, which, in turn, gets them to lay more. I'm sure it's got vitamins and other good stuff in it, but that makes zero sense to me, even if they DID have the ability to detect the capsaicin. ....

 

[Tikkijane]

I have read that putting red pepper in their feed increases laying as well.  I have also been told that if you do you can "burn" them out.  No sure what to believe.

Re: the burning out.... chickens have a set amount of eggs available to even produce. The thinking is that by making them lay all year round {by adding supplemental light during the winter}, they essentially burn out and stop laying sooner than they would if one let nature take its course. I have zero experience with supplemental light. I'm of the mind that their bodies were designed a certain way for an actual reason. While production does slow, I still get eggs in the winter, and my older hens {3/4+} continue to lay a few a week.

It seems to me that when they have an overall better state of nutrition {and not being stressed} that they may continue to lay at a slower rate for a longer amount of time. I really don't care either way, personally. I'm always adding chicks or something's hatching, so we do pretty well.