FERMENTED FEEDS...anyone using them?

[tigger19687]

yes it was, oh well, I tossed be because I wanted to be on the safe side.
It smelled a bit off and was not bubbling like it should have been.

I may try again when I get the organic crumbles

 

[EggSighted4Life]

If it's thick it's hard to see the bubbles, especially just at the top surface because they just look like cracks. The white stuff is SCOBY, symbiotic cultures of yeast and bacteria. It's a good thing for next time you try. And a very common misunderstanding for newbs!

I ACTUALLY HAVE MADE MOLD!! And was very excited to report it but just never have yet. But now IS the time. How I did it... I ferment 2, 18 gallon totes with 50# each on altering schedules so one gets fed while the other ferments. Which I have discovered, even with a decent back slosh will NOT ferment 50# overnight, hence the 2nd tote. So I sold about 14 of my hens and my feed consumption was way down. SO I just added some water to my 2nd bin to "keep it covered" as some claim you must to prevent mold. Quack! After a few days of just swishing the bin to break the surface of the water.. I could see molecular type chains forming on the surface, looking similar to connected snow flakes by the end. But more than that, I could SMELL the MOLD! Now, my guess is that what was in there had consumed all it's sugars and... well, I just don't know. Anyways, I decided to go ahead and add my 50# bag and see what happened. Well, within a day or so it looked and smelled like a lovely ferment and I fed it out. That was several month ago. So yes, you actually CAN get mold.. but it took special circumstances that didn't allow my original bacteria to out thrive the newer colonies.

Now, on to this whole leave water on the top to "keep it from molding"... I say hog wash!! And I have wondered this for a long time... Thing is that the water doesn't stay pure h2o when sitting 'on top' of the ferment. It has all the same stuff in it as the ferment, it's just separated to the top without the solids. Plus it's not like water is antibacterial or doesn't grow things in it. I mean NOTHING grows without water does it?!

My fermented feed ALONE has kept my recently disabled (no use of legs) chick alive for 12 days with zero standard water intake!!! Maybe he would still be alive if I were only wetting the feed, I don't know. But it has been nice to have the opportunity to take the time and try and decide which path I want to take for him/her. I will say the poos are still pretty normal but I do NOT expect recovery at this point. All though it isn't ideal, I don't *think* the bird is in extreme discomfort while waiting for me to do one thing or the other, as indicated by response when handling. And darn it, it's hard to cull after working really hard to save a life.

 

[Molpet]

Now, on to this whole leave water on the top to "keep it from molding"... I say hog wash!! And I have wondered this for a long time... Thing is that the water doesn't stay pure h2o when sitting 'on top' of the ferment. It has all the same stuff in it as the ferment, it's just separated to the top without the solids. Plus it's not like water is antibacterial or doesn't grow things in it. I mean NOTHING grows without water does it?!

I wonder about the air being sealed off by the water on top and botulism forming.. I heard some people had waterers that developed botulinum because they were air tight and not changed for a week.. don't know how true it is ... I know the dryer FF works for my birds and there is no way I am straining the feed anyway LOL

 

[Finnie]

I wonder about the air being sealed off by the water on top and botulism forming.. I heard some people had waterers that developed botulinum because they were air tight and not changed for a week.. don't know how true it is ... I know the dryer FF works for my birds and there is no way I am straining the feed anyway LOL

I agree. I've never done the "layer of water on top", and mine seems to work fine.

I would be skeptical anyway of the story about the botulism growing in the airtight waterer. Not that botulism wouldn't grow in one. I don't know about that. But rather, an airtight water won't allow the water to dispense through the nipples. There needs to be an air hole somewhere for the nipple system to work, doesn't there? Or else it would form a vacuum, and then the chickens wouldn't be able to drink that water anyway. Although I suppose if it did form a vacuum, then botulism could grow. But the water wouldn't come out. This is just my rambling train of thought on that one.

 

[EggSighted4Life]

Regarding my last post, I wanted to add that I keep my buckets outside where our temps range 50-60 degrees in summer and 40-50 in winter. It does sit in the sun with the lid on (not air tight) which raises the internal temp just a bit. So maybe 50# would ferment enough over night if your temps were higher than mine.

I don't think the air is any more sealed off by water on top than it would be from the standard mix. On another thread someone was recommending against FF and said it's a great way to breed botulism. But, I'm no scientist.. despite my excitement for all the experiments I've done with chicken raising.

 

[Finnie]

Regarding my last post, I wanted to add that I keep my buckets outside where our temps range 50-60 degrees in summer and 40-50 in winter. It does sit in the sun with the lid on (not air tight) which raises the internal temp just a bit. So maybe 50# would ferment enough over night if your temps were higher than mine.

I don't think the air is any more sealed off by water on top than it would be from the standard mix. On another thread someone was recommending against FF and said it's a great way to breed botulism. But, I'm no scientist.. despite my excitement for all the experiments I've done with chicken raising.

Do you actually ferment and feed out 50# of feed per day?! Maybe I am understanding your every other day two bucket system incorrectly. How many chickens do you have?

 

[igorsMistress]

I don't keep a layer of water on top of the crumble either. I've found it gets fat air bubbles throughout and smells better if I stir it a couple times a day.

 

[EggSighted4Life]

Do you actually ferment and feed out 50# of feed per day?! Maybe I am understanding your every other day two bucket system incorrectly. How many chickens do you have?

No, weekly... But when my consumption was down I tried using 1 bucket and it didn't ferment fast enough.

Though I'm a little nervous about the 9 ducklings I got eating me out of house and home once grown. I didn't realize they ate sooo much more than chickens.

 

[EggSighted4Life]

I don't keep a layer of water on top of the crumble either. I've found it gets fat air bubbles throughout and smells better if I stir it a couple times a day.

Yes, stirring increases activity... But those are probably fat GAS bubbles. Again, since I'm not a scientist.. maybe they are air! I keep learning so much that I never expected to know.

 

[lazy gardener]

I agree. I've never done the "layer of water on top", and mine seems to work fine.

I would be skeptical anyway of the story about the botulism growing in the airtight waterer. Not that botulism wouldn't grow in one. I don't know about that. But rather, an airtight water won't allow the water to dispense through the nipples. There needs to be an air hole somewhere for the nipple system to work, doesn't there? Or else it would form a vacuum, and then the chickens wouldn't be able to drink that water anyway. Although I suppose if it did form a vacuum, then botulism could grow. But the water wouldn't come out. This is just my rambling train of thought on that one.

Agreed, and with the bell waterers, that DO work on a vacuume principle, as the bird drinks from the moat, air enters the bell, allowing more water to be dispensed into the moat. Those bells always have several inches of air in them.

Yes, stirring increases activity... But those are probably fat GAS bubbles. Again, since I'm not a scientist.. maybe they are air! I keep learning so much that I never expected to know.

I'm not sure, but I think fermentation releases CO2, which is a component of air. Oxygen actually makes up a very small percentage of the air we breathe.

I find it amusing that those who speak so negatively about FF are the ones who have not used it. Why spend time on a thread that is dedicated to something you don't plan to do? Would I frequent a thread dedicated to bull fighting? No. It's not something I approve of, so why would I spend time on such a thread???