FERMENTED FEEDS...anyone using them?

[FlyWheel]

If they aren't making new feathers or laying they don't need much food overall. Mine haven't eaten much over winter but I'm noticing the ones that are starting to lay again are the first with their heads in the trough.

They were laying full bore, then their production dropped dramatically and I noticed a lot of loose feathers, now they have stopped dropping feathers and are back to over-running me with eggs.

I kind of agree... but does the halt of egg production offset the energy need of molting?

Is the amount of time you've been feeding FF have any correlation? Is it possible they are just done making the switch and their needs have leveled off? Also, if seasons changing maybe they have more bugs or other stuff available now?

"Amount of time (I) have been feeding them"? Not sure what you mean by that. Unfortunately I cannot free range them, so they are stuck in their 400SqFt pen. I do throw them a handful of mealy worms every now and then.

You wouldn't be the first to try it! Actually a bunch of scientists tried it with 20 different brands of "Probiotic" capsules and proved all but 3 were totally dead and devoid of any probiotic effect.

Scary reading studies of supplements ... so often they prove that most supplement brands don't contain anything the label says they should ... how do you deal with that, as a normal person standing in a health products aisle?



Technically, the halt of egg production Partially offsets the Protein requirements of moulting. Energy requirements are a confusing variable that even the experts scratch their heads over a bit, and change depending on protein content of the diet.

If you feed your moulting hens Extremely high protein (we're talking an almost totally meat based diet here), they can still lay while moulting! However, if you don't, they stop laying, and lose a bit of weight sometimes too, because on the same diet they cannot support the extra feather growth.

So you will have much higher overall feed consumption during moult unless you boost the protein levels.

Take a light breed, where normally you would feed 14-16% layer diet, and during moult, without laying, the maintenance plus feather is wanting closer to the 16-18% you would feed a heavy breed. The heavy breed wants even more.

If you adjust those levels the total dry weight feed going in won't change from the normal, but if you keep feeding the same diet, it will go up slightly.

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Still looking for the analysis of fermented grains ... I almost got it for wheat on a sourdough study but it is a purchase only full text. I've run into that a lot on this subject!!

In the meantime I'm reading a fascinating PDF on poultry nutrition. When I eventually find any info on the analysis of fermented feeds I'll post it!

Mine have gotten the same feed for most of their life: Purina Flock Raiser-20% protein, highest available that I have found. Now a few were laying even during the 'mass-molt'. so maybe the fact that they are no longer producing feathers may have something to do with their less ravenous appetite, but then why the greater enthusiasm before?

Whatever the reason, it is certainly easier now to regulate their feeding.

 

[mobius]

what is the ph of your water? so we can see how much it changed

ETA and when you first mix the feed before it ferments

Yes @Molpet good question. I have well water. It off gasses over night. The pH strip was used in the ferment after the off-gassing. The water pH after off-gassing is exactly 7.0. Ask me how I know this....

The ferment was tested today on its second day....

 

[Molpet]

Yes @Molpet good question. I have well water. It off gasses over night. The pH strip was used in the ferment after the off-gassing. The water pH after off-gassing is exactly 7.0. Ask me how I know this....

The ferment was tested today on its second day....

OK I will ask how you know the well ph LOL .. and why you gass off well water? I am on a well and don't...

I was wondering too how much the feed changes the ph before the fermenting

 

[EggSighted4Life]

Yes... I was curious about the original water PH, The PH after mixing in the feed before any ferment. And then the daily PH throughout feeding the batch. Possibly the PH when it gets to the slightly over ripe phase where the chickens don't prefer it.

I also have well water and seems like last time I tested it was also around 7. City water at my sons' house runs around 8. Also, when left to sit, the PH actually rose.

My reference about how long you've been feeding FF correlating to their appetite.. was say if you've only been feeding for a few week then they may have been ravenous and then leveled off after the full benefits of the FF set in?

So if my hen has vent gleet, and vent gleet is a yeast infection (I read also possibly herpes virus)... after several months seems like the immune system should have gotten it under control even without treatment, unless there was something more going on? If I ferment and already have probiotics and lower gut PH... in addition to the info we just saw about sugars being converted through the fermentation process, will adding yet more probiotics via yogurt or what have you actually have ANY benefit? Does she possibly have diabetes (chronic recurring yeast infection was how I found out I was diabetic some 22 years ago. Since treatment for my blood sugar, no problem. Sorry for the embarrassing medical history). Yes, I will probably pursue this conversation on a vent gleet thread, but these questions are kind of about FF.

 

[mobius]

OK I will ask how you know the well ph LOL .. and why you gass off well water? I am on a well and don't...

I was wondering too how much the feed changes the ph before the fermenting

Ok the reason I know all this is I had a fish tank for a betta that I nitrogen cycled so I was testing the water for all kinds of things daily and learned that I had to have a baseline measure of pH...soooo I measured the water out of the tap and it was a bit high. I kept the water out overnight and it off gassed the CO2 and the pH normalized...overnight...and i could use it in my tank. I dont offgas with the FF though...hope that helps...

 

[orchardflock]

Dissolved CO2 would make the pH lower, not higher. It's possible though that you have minerals in your water that are making the pH higher, and then if you left it out with a lot of surface area CO2 is dissolving and making it lower. Or you just meant it was too low originally. Sorry, I'm a science teacher with a well, and this kind of thing fascinates me.

I should bring home a test kit and see what the pH of the fermented feed is after a few days. It should be lower from the lactic acid production. It's possible though that it goes up again after 5 days or so from the production of ammonia, which would explain why the chickens don't like it as much. Or it just gets too acidic.

 

[mobius]

no sorries needed, I appreciate any correction and the ability to learn.

 

[Ebarnes-21]

I have a kit for my Aquaponic system, I will check it today.

The test will (Since most are either absorbent strips or liquid tests) be checking only the liquid, which may be more acid that the average solid chunk ... for instance I wouldn't expect the inside of a corn kernel to be as acidic as the outside.

Incidentally, I tasted my chicken feed yesterday (Don't look at me like that, its just wheat and corn in a food grade bucket!). However I comment that it was distinctly acidic, at least on the outside of the kernels. Not bad actually ... sort of partway between vinegar and yoghurt ... a bit like kombucha.

 

[mobius]

For all you FF lovers, here is my new thread...you are all invited!

I started a thread on detoxing the house and natural cosmetics and so on, please join us!

Here is the link:

https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/detox-your-house-and-cosmetics-what-do-you-do.1192135

Best, Mobius

 

[Ebarnes-21]

PH of my fermented whole grain's liquid is 4.5.

PH of the water prior to use is (to my surprise) 6. (Its rain water, which is normally 7 here, but its collecting in a bucket I mixed tannin in last year, the bucket is a little "Tea-stained", so I guess there is still some tannic acid in it after all).

Fermentation time is hard to say, as I am topping up every day. I have about 1.5 gallons of mix sitting there: I use and replace about 4 cups a day. So there is 4-5 days or so feed involved, ranging from 0-5 days old shall we say? Average age 2.5 days?
PH of my fermented whole grain's liquid is 4.5.

PH of the water prior to use is (to my surprise) 6. (Its rain water, which is normally 7 here, but its collecting in a bucket I mixed tannin in last year, the bucket is a little "Tea-stained", so I guess there is still some tannic acid in it after all).

Fermentation time is hard to say, as I am topping up every day. I have about 1.5 gallons of mix sitting there: I use and replace about 4 cups a day. So there is 4-5 days or so feed involved, ranging from 0-5 days old shall we say? Average age 2.5 days?