fermenting feed and protein levels

[JaeG]

This is also an excellent thread to read through where I got the link for the paper from:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/fermented-feeds-anyone-using-them.645057/#post-8695537

 

[Shadrach]

I think I've worked this one out now....
Regarding the protein content of fermented feed v dry.
A complete protein comprises 9 amino acids. Fermentation works at amino acid level, not at full combinations. In order for the overall protein content to increase during fermentation, each amino acid would have to have undergo a chemical change that increases its value. Other chemicals can and do react with the addition of water, but as the various articles state, some increase while others do not. If the amino acids that make up the protein are changed in fermentation it seems unlikely that all those changes would be positive.

 

[EggSighted4Life]

If the amino acids that make up the protein are changed in fermentation it seems unlikely that all those changes would be positive.

My basic thought as well.

If removing phytase or making thing more bio available is important... Sprouting is a good option for whole feeds.

I guess at the end of the day my current take is still... meh, a giant time suck for flocks my size (about 75+). Fun to do IF you WANT to... but definitely did NOT benefit MY flock or expenses in the way that so many avid FF'ers claim. I consider FF to be a nutritious... TREAT with nice "enrichment" value (meaning boredom buster).

If savings and benefits were as universally beneficial as initial FAQ's and stuff would lead us to believe... am I really to think that the industry would not have jumped on it to reduce their expenses and maximize yields...

It's a lot of fun to see different flocks... my flock waste zero crumbles but tosses pellets everywhere. While my friend across town, her flock does not waste pellets but spreads crumbles. My roosters do well with pellets, but my hens act like they are party confetti or something.

 

[Kiki]

I can't help myself I have to say it one more time.
I do not think that fermenting feed, specifically crumble, saves any money.

 

[Shadrach]

I've got so sucked into this diet thing with fermented food I'm writing an article about it.

 

[Morrigan]

I can't help myself I have to say it one more time.
I do not think that fermenting feed, specifically crumble, saves any money.

It depends a little on the situation. It saves a little money for me, because it doesn't get spilled and wasted in the same way. But, I could solve that by going to outside no-spill feeders.

I guess it's possible if you had a chicken pre-disposed to over-eat, she may eat less with FF because the water volume is fooling her into thinking she's full. But do hens overeat?

All in all, I think there are benefits to FF, but I agree, saving money is not driving my decision.

 

[Shadrach]

This might amuse some of those who have posted on this topic.

https://www.backyardchickens.com/ar...o-fermented-facts-myths-and-experience.74414/

 

[Beer can]

Hi All!! I have recently been researching on the lacto-fermenting process and would like to try it. I have only ever fed my flocks (both layer and meat) crumbles from the store, either for layer or meat, so the protein levels are different. I think my layer crumble is 16% and my finisher for the meat birds is 21-22%. The layers range, and my Cornish chicks are in a large moving tractor (and their feed is removed at night).
My question is this: Will fermenting the crumbles I have do anything to the protein levels of the feed? In my limited experience the layer hens can eat whatever, but cornish chicks seem to survive better on an appropriate protein level feed and I don't want to mess that up. I read a lot about probiotics and nutrient levels, lower feed costs, egg benefits, etc but I can't seem to find any information about protein levels.

Thanks for any help and info!

I didn't read through this whole thread but there is some back and forth on fermenting. I sometimes do, sometimes don't. I'm pretty sure I buy less feed when fermenting feed lasts longer. Whether or not there is any extreme benefits I'm not completely convinced.
I don't have a ton of birds so a five gallon bucket leaving some in for 'backslop' isn't to much added work and ferments just fine in one day during the summer months.
I figure if all I'm doing by fermenting is adding prebiotics/probiotics it's worth doing. I once had someone tell me I could add that just by feeding Purina feed, already has it. Purina 16% is $16 a 50lb bag, I pay $10 for 17% layer mash at a local mill.
I'll add the prebiotics/probiotics myself by fermenting and save myself a few hundred bucks a yr Lol.

 

[EggSighted4Life]

I'm pretty sure I buy less feed when fermenting feed lasts longer. Whether or not there is any extreme benefits I'm not completely convinced.

Well... the thing is that my feed amount can be effected daily simply by the weather so without looking at long term use... I could not make ANY claim.

$6 per bag is quite a saving... You would have to buy 16 bags in a year to save $100... doesn't seem likely if your flock is "small". When my flock was small one bag lasted 3 months... now I go through 2 bags a week (or more). I wish I could find a local mill for that cheap... though I still wouldn't feed layer... maybe they would have other feeds available... That's cheap!

See so many people get caught up on the whole probiotic thing... it should be about the amino acids IMO...

I still contend... the bacteria are consuming something and degrading other components of the FORMULATED feed. This thread did confirm that to me.

But I love to see the conversation!

 

[JaeG]

You want LABs (lactic acid bacteria) to be fermenting your feed. They are a great preserver of food and keep harmful bacteria, molds etc in check (which is why we have used this form of fermentation for centuries). Fermented feed needs to produce more lactic acid as opposed to acetic acid (as found in apple cider vinegar) because it adds nutritional value to the mix as a result of the byproducts produced.

Fermentation is either through yeasts which consume sugars and produce alcohol, or bacteria which consume sugars, starches or alcohol and produce acids. The LABs, as a byproduct, actually produce new vitamins including B Vitamins, Vitamin K2 and also produce some enzymes.

Wet feed of any kind changes the chickens digestive tract, growing larger villi which gives more surface area for more nutrients to be absorbed. Soaking feed also unlocks stored nutrients - seeds do not activate to grow until conditions are right, so they are preserved by anti nutrients to ensure they don't degrade. Soaking them unlocks all the goodness, so even just soaking your feed is of benefit, but it also leaves it open to growing mold or harmful bacteria if left out too long. LABs protect against this, meaning you don't have to be worried if it has to be left out all day.